The Trump / Russia Controversy

[Kuddie]

Claeyt, please, when has anything illegal ever stopped the people in power? If we are following the law here then Hillary should already have been in prison.

[Dallane]

The DOD does not help law enforcement sometimes from the federal level. That is absolutely false.

You are once again very very wrong. I've worked around multiple situations that have state and local mixing with federal.

[TotalyMeow]

So, you've done the research, sort of. If this ever happens, they'll be deputized in their states and, thanks to this memo, would be able to be granted the same immigration enforcement powers as the current agents. Specifically not federalization, according to the memo, and only the same powers granted such agents now. No gun patrols, no dystopian camps, probably the "qualified" people they'll go for will be bookkeepers and the like. People to do the necessary boring paperwork, freeing up more real agents to do the field work. Remember, National Guard members get a little training a few weeks of the year and the rest of it they're just office workers, laborers, normal guys.

Claeyt, please, when has anything illegal ever stopped the people in power? If we are following the law here then Hillary should already have been in prison.

Yeah, this is one of the things that really upset me. Just letting her off from a major crime after the election was over and for what reason? Because he figured, eh, already won so who cares? It doesn't work that way. If the media had any integrity at all, they'd have asked why this happened themselves, but since Hillary was their horse, they were only too happy to see her let off. This is just another reason why the press needs to get it's **** together. They keep making a big deal out of things they don't like, calling things illegal when they aren't, while ignoring things that really might be illegal just because it's something they agree with. It's unconscionable.

Edit: Well, this is interesting. Something yesterday bothered me about that AP article I mentioned Claeyt posting because I had gone back to look at it and the date seemed off, the headline wasn't what I remembered, and the article seemed somewhat different. Sure enough, I checked it again today and I think they stealth changed it. I don't have the original article, maybe I should start copy/pasting these things. But Claeyt's original post:

Why are you calling the AP a random news site.

Here's the original article which is linked in the Slate article.

https://apnews.com/5508111d59554a33be8001bdac4ef830

Happened on Feb 17. The article that that link NOW goes to, says the article was published on Feb 18. There are no edits or retractions or alterations listed in the article, they just took the old one down and replaced it with a new one. Just like that WP article. I wonder how often and how long they've all been doing this. Can't have been too long or more people would be noticing.

[Kuddie]

Happened on Feb 17. The article that that link NOW goes to, says the article was published on Feb 18. There are no edits or retractions or alterations listed in the article, they just took the old one down and replaced it with a new one. Just like that WP article. I wonder how often and how long they've all been doing this. Can't have been too long or more people would be noticing.

I see this type of practice here in Sweden too, especially when it comes to hatecrimes, politics and rape. Articles get removed or heavily edited after a small amount of time.

[MarpTarpton]

Happy President's Day

[Claeyt]

So what happened today,

Austria agreed to extradite the Pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch to America who worked with Manafort in Ukraine. He may be able to give information on the 12.7 million that was in the secret ledger that supposedly went to Manafort (of which he denies ever getting).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... &tid=sm_tw

The New Yorker is reporting that Flynn illegally received at least $40,000 to appear with Putin at the RT dinner in 2015.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... eral-chaos

So, you've done the research, sort of. If this ever happens, they'll be deputized in their states and, thanks to this memo, would be able to be granted the same immigration enforcement powers as the current agents. Specifically not federalization, according to the memo, and only the same powers granted such agents now. No gun patrols, no dystopian camps, probably the "qualified" people they'll go for will be bookkeepers and the like. People to do the necessary boring paperwork, freeing up more real agents to do the field work. Remember, National Guard members get a little training a few weeks of the year and the rest of it they're just office workers, laborers, normal guys.

The memo was written specifically to address what it would look like and what it would need for the federal government could deport 12 million illegal immigrants. It was a big idea memo.

Deporting 12 million illegal immigrants isn't going to take a few "book keepers", it's going to take thousands of armed guards and prison camps. We already have some, we'll need a lot more if this memo is ever implemented.

Yeah, this is one of the things that really upset me. Just letting her off from a major crime after the election was over and for what reason? Because he figured, eh, already won so who cares? It doesn't work that way. If the media had any integrity at all, they'd have asked why this happened themselves, but since Hillary was their horse, they were only too happy to see her let off. This is just another reason why the press needs to get it's **** together. They keep making a big deal out of things they don't like, calling things illegal when they aren't, while ignoring things that really might be illegal just because it's something they agree with. It's unconscionable.

She's not in prison because 6 congressional hearings and the FBI found nothing illegal about either Benghazi or her email server. The legitimate congressional investigation (which ended years ago unlike the partisan nonsense congressional hearings) found that Benghazi was a bureaucratic breakdown in State Department and Military response and didn't blame her specifically. As for her Email server, the FBI and State department investigations have both found that it was sketchy, against State Department protocol but not illegal in any way. I don't know when you guys are going to realize this but Republicans (and Trump) have been lying to you about this. They keep using this to drive your opinion about her.

They are lying to you when they say she did anything illegal or that they would eve be able to prosecute her for anything and you're believing them like mindless idiots and yelling "lock her up" without realizing that they're using you.

Happened on Feb 17. The article that that link NOW goes to, says the article was published on Feb 18.

Answered in other thread. If it has a different date in the title of the article it is a different article. Also, media only posts retractions if they reported something wrong, not if they add to a story.

[TotalyMeow]

So what happened today,

Austria agreed to extradite the Pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch to America who worked with Manafort in Ukraine. He may be able to give information on the 12.7 million that was in the secret ledger that supposedly went to Manafort (of which he denies ever getting).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... &tid=sm_tw

This article says he's being extradited for a crime of bribing Indian officials in connection with a titanium deal committed during the Obama Administration, that the extradition was previously denied, but that the request has been made again, for the same crime as before. It says they haven't decided one way or the other yet. It didn't mention any 12.7 million dollar secret ledger.

The New Yorker is reporting that Flynn illegally received at least $40,000 to appear with Putin at the RT dinner in 2015.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... eral-chaos

They're not reporting that. This is a crazy long article, I don't have time to read it all, but I finally found the word 'dollars' 2/3 of the way down with a search and found the line you're referring to. It says that Flynn did this visit to Russia and was thoroughly briefed beforehand, everyone knew he was going to do it, and that he received a $40,000 fee, which it doesn't say was illegal, because it wasn't. However, this was reported on several days ago as a possibly reason why Trump fired him because it seems he failed to report the fee on his taxes and to fill out certain forms he was supposed to fill out when receiving money from a foreign government. On the bright side, Trump has made a new pick for his NSA who might possibly be the best appointment choice he's made so far.

She's not in prison because 6 congressional hearings and the FBI found nothing illegal about either Benghazi or her email server. The legitimate congressional investigation (which ended years ago unlike the partisan nonsense congressional hearings) found that Benghazi was a bureaucratic breakdown in State Department and Military response and didn't blame her specifically. As for her Email server, the FBI and State department investigations have both found that it was sketchy, against State Department protocol but not illegal in any way. I don't know when you guys are going to realize this but Republicans (and Trump) have been lying to you about this. They keep using this to drive your opinion about her.

They are lying to you when they say she did anything illegal or that they would eve be able to prosecute her for anything and you're believing them like mindless idiots and yelling "lock her up" without realizing that they're using you.

I'm not, nor ever have been, yelling "lock her up". I know what congress decided, that she was a blithering idiot, thinking that the 'c' for classified was referring to some cryptic alphabetizing system and other stupid excuses, rather than intentionally breaking the law. It's fishy, and it wasn't in any way a fair trial because she probably did break the law. I do think Trump should have encouraged congress to reopen their investigation (though perhaps it was too late due to double jeopardy?). He didn't and it's a shame, but at least she's well out of Washington and hopefully she'll stay out.

[Claeyt]

So what happened today,

Austria agreed to extradite the Pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch to America who worked with Manafort in Ukraine. He may be able to give information on the 12.7 million that was in the secret ledger that supposedly went to Manafort (of which he denies ever getting).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... &tid=sm_tw

This article says he's being extradited for a crime of bribing Indian officials in connection with a titanium deal committed during the Obama Administration, that the extradition was previously denied, but that the request has been made again, for the same crime as before. It says they haven't decided one way or the other yet. It didn't mention any 12.7 million dollar secret ledger.

Here's some visual reporting on it so you don't have to read so much.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watc ... 1324611851

The New Yorker is reporting that Flynn illegally received at least $40,000 to appear with Putin at the RT dinner in 2015.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... eral-chaos

They're not reporting that. This is a crazy long article, I don't have time to read it all, but I finally found the word 'dollars' 2/3 of the way down with a search and found the line you're referring to. It says that Flynn did this visit to Russia and was thoroughly briefed beforehand, everyone knew he was going to do it, and that he received a $40,000 fee, which it doesn't say was illegal, because it wasn't. However, this was reported on several days ago as a possibly reason why Trump fired him because it seems he failed to report the fee on his taxes and to fill out certain forms he was supposed to fill out when receiving money from a foreign government. On the bright side, Trump has made a new pick for his NSA who might possibly be the best appointment choice he's made so far.

The 40,000 payment from Russia was illegal because he was an active general in the U.S. Army and did not report it to them. Active members of the U.S. Armed forces aren't allowed to receive payments without waivers. He did not file taxes on it apparently either. There's an open ongoing Army investigation that could lead to court martial.

She's not in prison because 6 congressional hearings and the FBI found nothing illegal about either Benghazi or her email server. The legitimate congressional investigation (which ended years ago unlike the partisan nonsense congressional hearings) found that Benghazi was a bureaucratic breakdown in State Department and Military response and didn't blame her specifically. As for her Email server, the FBI and State department investigations have both found that it was sketchy, against State Department protocol but not illegal in any way. I don't know when you guys are going to realize this but Republicans (and Trump) have been lying to you about this. They keep using this to drive your opinion about her.

They are lying to you when they say she did anything illegal or that they would eve be able to prosecute her for anything and you're believing them like mindless idiots and yelling "lock her up" without realizing that they're using you.

I'm not, nor ever have been, yelling "lock her up". I know what congress decided, that she was a blithering idiot, thinking that the 'c' for classified was referring to some cryptic alphabetizing system and other stupid excuses, rather than intentionally breaking the law. It's fishy, and it wasn't in any way a fair trial because she probably did break the law. I do think Trump should have encouraged congress to reopen their investigation (though perhaps it was too late due to double jeopardy?). He didn't and it's a shame, but at least she's well out of Washington and hopefully she'll stay out.

Congress never actually had any hearing or investigation about her Email Server, it just came out in the Benghazi partisan hearings. If I remember right she never actually sent or responded to anything with a 'c' (the lowest level of classified materials in the U.S. System) she simply received 6 emails with a 'c' on them which were sent to her personal email account.

There was no trial, there will be no trial because if there was ever a trial she would be found not guilty. The FBI said she's not guilty over and over. They said she broke State Department protocol (which is not illegal) and nothing else so let's stop saying stupid stuff and say what it actually is. Congress is acted in a partisan way to hurt Hillary Clinton politically.

Congress has already re-opened several continuing Hillary hearings for no reason whatsoever other than they can tell the suckers and shills like you guys that they're trying to lock her up. They're lying to you and always have been and you guys believed them.

[Dallane]

'c' (the lowest level of classified materials in the U.S. System) she simply received 6 emails with a 'c' on them which were sent to her personal email account.

Confidential is the very bottom of "classified" material and 'c' has never been the official way to classify such material. When using the proper network to send this information there is a window that pops up for you to select the classification. It's important because the network you send this on is almost 100% separated from the normal internet. If the material didn't need to be sent on said network then it still needs to be sent through NIPR so that it can be encrypted properly. I don't think anyone has officially said what the actual classification of the emails were which is why people in my position question this. Her setting up a private unsecured server is just beyond retarded.

This is important because of her status at that time there needs to be a actual investigation. There are too many people who have made similar mistakes that have had their lives affected by this. Her walking away like nothing happens really sends a sour message to the thousands of people who deal with this. If anything a actual investigation would clear her as you claim and people can shut up about it. However nothing is happening with it and people can't help but think why. Why not just investigate and clear her if it isn't a issue?

[TotalyMeow]

This article says he's being extradited for a crime of bribing Indian officials in connection with a titanium deal committed during the Obama Administration, that the extradition was previously denied, but that the request has been made again, for the same crime as before. It says they haven't decided one way or the other yet. It didn't mention any 12.7 million dollar secret ledger.

Here's some visual reporting on it so you don't have to read so much.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watc ... 1324611851

No thank you. But I see I did miss a paragraph at the bottom thanks to a large ad. It still doesn't mention a secret ledger. This guy seems to make a lot of international business deals and also seems to be rather a shady character.

However, this was reported on several days ago as a possible reason why Trump fired him because it seems he failed to report the fee on his taxes and to fill out certain forms he was supposed to fill out when receiving money from a foreign government. On the bright side, Trump has made a new pick for his NSA who might possibly be the best appointment choice he's made so far.

The 40,000 payment from Russia was illegal because he was an active general in the U.S. Army and did not report it to them. Active members of the U.S. Armed forces aren't allowed to receive payments without waivers. He did not file taxes on it apparently either. There's an open ongoing Army investigation that could lead to court martial.

Dude, that's what I just said.