I may be back

[darnokpl]

I'm well aware of the flaws of both Wurm and ATitD. The genre is under-developed. I'm sure another will be made eventually as well, perhaps more palatable to the more casual players. Salem is definitely the most "casual friendly" of this genre. The mere fact that minecraft is so massively popular makes me think this market has room to support many more MMOs and a much larger total playerbase. Just waiting on developers like SeaTribe to come along and make their contributions to them.

But potjeh has it. Without permadeath, the current system is not balanced. Someone can come by and destroy *EVERY* single item you own that is not in an inventory of a character, and you can do ***** all about it. You *could* go kill their stuff, but without permadeath they would be an alt living in a random leanto, there would be no one to punish. In salem, currently the alt itself is valuable enough that killing it is at least some form of retribution.

I could think of some ways to handle things. However, a PvE server would require such massive rebalancing of things that the work would be A) monumental and B) The game would stray very far from the core design philosophies that Salem is based on. Salem is a social game, much of the "end game" content is caused by PvP friction. Wars, alliances, attempts to build or destroy. Taking away pvp would require a large amount of work to create a new endgame for the PvE game. Sure purity grind is fun for a month or two, but without a reason or drive to P grind it becomes pretty stale pretty quickly.

My suggestion is remove murder and waste, nothing more is needed to start this experiment.

[Tonkyhonk]

My suggestion is remove murder and waste, nothing more is needed to start this experiment.

and you want to hear ppl cry "i got robbed, i need silver refund" and tell them "n00b, deal with it"?
or you mean removing all black skills and ask paradox to put "player moderators" and then cry about mod abuse?

[darnokpl]

My suggestion is remove murder and waste, nothing more is needed to start this experiment.

and you want to hear ppl cry "i got robbed, i need silver refund" and tell them "n00b, deal with it"?
or you mean removing all black skills and ask paradox to put "player moderators" and then cry about mod abuse?

Right coz now people are crying after got killed by chief?

[darnokpl]

From my experience we can say players of Salem and HnH can be assigned to skill levels:

Level 1. Newbie, just started game, for him fun is hunting and foraging, he is not aware of politics, large factions or wars.
Settles in random place and is happy with that. Building his camp with friend or two, does not care about joining town.
Easy target for chief-like people, quits after killed and robbed. PVP-server is not for him!

Level 2. Still newbie, but will settle near forest. He can hunt, forage, sell leather and iron. He is building medium size camp with friends and want to create town after they get 2500s. He doesn't care about politics, factions and forums, but may join town if you recruit him in game and say about forum verification.
Still easy target for chief and pvp is not for him.

Level 3. Medium player, he visits forum and say he wants to join town. He can do many labours and will be useful for community.
He still doesn't care about politics and if town mayor won't inform him what large faction town he joined he would never knew that.
PVP is not for him, he is used as cheap labour force by large factions.

Level 4. Pro player. He is trying to build his own camp or town, he cares about location, not too close to other people. He is recruiting all 3 levels of players below him and using them as free slaves. He will raid and murder weaker camps, he care about politics, trade, visit forums. He have farming alt and murder alt (newbies before him didn't think about that).
PVP server is for him.

Level 5. Hardcore. People that know each other for few years they want to build large faction and dominate in world. They are monitoring forums, updates, looking for bugs, best raid targets, grinding. They do politics, alliances, trades and labours camps with newbies. They think about game rules and judge what is balanced and what is not. They play for so long they forgot how is to be newbie.
PVP server is for them.

Pick one for yourself

[Tonkyhonk]

My suggestion is remove murder and waste, nothing more is needed to start this experiment.

and you want to hear ppl cry "i got robbed, i need silver refund" and tell them "n00b, deal with it"?
or you mean removing all black skills and ask paradox to put "player moderators" and then cry about mod abuse?

Right coz now people are crying after got killed by chief?

its a lot healthier than your delusional suggestion. they are crying for what they should be crying when they get killed.

[darnokpl]

and you want to hear ppl cry "i got robbed, i need silver refund" and tell them "n00b, deal with it"?
or you mean removing all black skills and ask paradox to put "player moderators" and then cry about mod abuse?

Right coz now people are crying after got killed by chief?

its a lot healthier than your delusional suggestion. they are crying for what they should be crying when they get killed.

Well from my point of view not and people on NON-PVP server won't cry, coz game is balanced if you turn off raiding and killing

Healthier you say is to have "chars 78" online? Most of them are people from 4, 5 level I described
But we have 4500+ people registered on forum, where are they now?
Most of them is from 1-3 and we can't see them talking in here, but I am sure they would agree with me.

[Tonkyhonk]

But we have 4500+ people registered on forum, where are they now?
Most of them is from 1-3 and we can't see them talking in here, but I am sure they would agree with me.

let them agree with you while you have no good solutions to the issues your delusional game-play brings.

[darnokpl]

But we have 4500+ people registered on forum, where are they now?
Most of them is from 1-3 and we can't see them talking in here, but I am sure they would agree with me.

let them agree with you while you have no good solutions to the issues your delusional game-play brings.

Your and other hardcore players opinion
I think TotalyMoo should send emails to those 4500 players and just ask them about pvp and non-pvp server
Removing only murder and waste gives more balance to this game (as non-pvp solution) that any other things I read about.
I wish to see here (on forum and in this thread) some more people, but forums is dominated by your friends and any new and fresh ideas are killed instantly.
Good luck and have fun with Salem.

[staxjax]

Good luck and have fun with Salem.

Same to you ;p

[Potjeh]

Since when is design by committee become a good thing?

As for your ideas, yes, it would work if everyone played nice like you expect them to, but people don't work that way. A non-PvP server would be like a gold inlaid invitation to griefers without some extensive changes to the game that wouldn't be portable back to the PvP server. Meanwhile, any development on balancing PvP would be useless on this peaceful server, so the devs would effectively be forced to develop two separate games. Of course, that would halve the already slow pace of development, which isn't really feasible, so in reality this non-PvP server requires complete abandonment of PvP as it currently is, ridding Salem of the one and only thing that makes unique on the market.