Custom clients: Cheating and player retention

[ZtyX]

I'm not going to comment on the client stuff because I have been in this discussion way to many times before.

Another thing is the way moderators work on these forums. Honestly, they're nice guys. But it's very unconventional that they're typing their own opinions with their moderator account. I think another important step in making this project more clean and professional would be to enforce a policy for moderators to be using a private account and keep their true identity a secret, if they want to discuss the game as players.

But as for this, I don't understand your reasoning.

Every time a mod does not write with green text, he/she/it is just a normal user like anyone of you's.

Why should we add another layer of deception just to hide what the mods think and do?

I have several thoughts regarding this and I'll try to explain.

Well, to begin with it's about favouritism and players of Salem being particularly prone to extra negative reactions when they feel they've been mistreated. The nature of this game is very competitive and people are very sensitive because of that. It's a hardcore game and people who achieve something in this game did so only because they tried hard. Therefore they will care more about this game and anything that happens on the forum as opposed to if they were playing a casual game where things come easy. When the game launches there will be more people playing Salem, but there are already problems with topics being moved or locked and moderation being too strict for some or they disagree with some decisions. The fact that people care more causes the players to react in a more extreme and negative manner when they feel a moderator has decided on something the player doesn't agree with. This strong reaction will only be fueled by a player's suspicion towards some moderators who talk freely on the forums, but at the same time might appear biased in political topics or any other topic for that matter. Topics on game suggestions, for instance, might or might not fall in taste with a moderator. Basically, I feel that in a game where the players care a lot about the game it is neccesary for those who hold power over the players to be absolutely 100% just, unbiased and neutral. They should follow the rules by the book, but sometimes give players a longer leash because this game is a very stressful one. And I think it aggravates people unneccesarily when someone who has real power over whose voice and opinion is heard appears like an individual with his own agenda and his own opinions rather than being a 'fly on the wall' who will look at events from a side, share nothing personal about him and simply use that power completely neutrally where people don't constantly have to be confronted with the idea that this or that moderator has a certain interest because he's playing the game or writing certain personal opinions on the forum.

Why aggravate people? .. Also, I used to play Runescape when I was younger and I remember these player moderators who would police the game. Being a moderator becomes prestigeous and it creates jealousy and mistrust towards the game when some have power and some don't. Even if that power is just moderation and it's more work than pleasure. This game is basically a very competitive one and people should be on an absolutely level playing field. That's important or else people will cry about it and feel mistreated and or jealous.

god why are we still talking about clients?

fact is until jorbtar makes a real client we are stuck dealing with custom clients. get over it. you want a advantage? learn to code.

brb turning on my hay bot

What about mods saying stuff like this ? I'm sure a publisher from a commercial-live game loves mods who make statements like that

(not that i believe anything he says though, he has proven that himself many times)

Honestly, not everyone shares your opinion and that particular sense of humour. Not everyone understands sarcasm. You're saying something. But what if what you're saying is really true? How do we know you're kidding? We can't see your face and what you say is plausible. Also, this kind of topics should give a warning because it's potentially making people uneasy about the existence of such a 'hay-bot' when people in the game are running around and working hard on getting that hay. Fairness and fairplay is always an issue in very competitive games. People need to believe that the ones in charge of the game do everything in their power to keep the game fair. It's very demoralizing and demotivating to lose faith in a game because you believe someone might be cheating. So such posts and rumours have to be taken seriously or it begins affecting people that otherwise like the game and play it seriously and fairly.

Personally, I think it's completely unprofessional for a moderator to talk that way. It confuses people. Is that moderator just joking or is he serious? People might already be sensitive because this guy is a moderator and has more power, yet he's joking around. So why make them worried? ... it's a particular kind of humour and you're putting off some people with it. When working for customer support one must be neutral and try to serve the masses, not antagonize them.

[Dallane]

I'm not going to comment on the client stuff because I have been in this discussion way to many times before.

Another thing is the way moderators work on these forums. Honestly, they're nice guys. But it's very unconventional that they're typing their own opinions with their moderator account. I think another important step in making this project more clean and professional would be to enforce a policy for moderators to be using a private account and keep their true identity a secret, if they want to discuss the game as players.

But as for this, I don't understand your reasoning.

Every time a mod does not write with green text, he/she/it is just a normal user like anyone of you's.

Why should we add another layer of deception just to hide what the mods think and do?

I have several thoughts regarding this and I'll try to explain.

Well, to begin with it's about favouritism and players of Salem being particularly prone to extra negative reactions when they feel they've been mistreated. The nature of this game is very competitive and people are very sensitive because of that. It's a hardcore game and people who achieve something in this game did so only because they tried hard. Therefore they will care more about this game and anything that happens on the forum as opposed to if they were playing a casual game where things come easy. When the game launches there will be more people playing Salem, but there are already problems with topics being moved or locked and moderation being too strict for some or they disagree with some decisions. The fact that people care more causes the players to react in a more extreme and negative manner when they feel a moderator has decided on something the player doesn't agree with. This strong reaction will only be fueled by a player's suspicion towards some moderators who talk freely on the forums, but at the same time might appear biased in political topics or any other topic for that matter. Topics on game suggestions, for instance, might or might not fall in taste with a moderator. Basically, I feel that in a game where the players care a lot about the game it is neccesary for those who hold power over the players to be absolutely 100% just, unbiased and neutral. They should follow the rules by the book, but sometimes give players a longer leash because this game is a very stressful one. And I think it aggravates people unneccesarily when someone who has real power over whose voice and opinion is heard appears like an individual with his own agenda and his own opinions rather than being a 'fly on the wall' who will look at events from a side, share nothing personal about him and simply use that power completely neutrally where people don't constantly have to be confronted with the idea that this or that moderator has a certain interest because he's playing the game or writing certain personal opinions on the forum.

Why aggravate people? .. Also, I used to play Runescape when I was younger and I remember these player moderators who would police the game. Being a moderator becomes prestigeous and it creates jealousy and mistrust towards the game when some have power and some don't. Even if that power is just moderation and it's more work than pleasure. This game is basically a very competitive one and people should be on an absolutely level playing field. That's important or else people will cry about it and feel mistreated and or jealous.

So basically mods need to play solo or not at all.

Wait till you find out about the master mason forum that only mods and certain players(mostly alpha) have access to.

[ZtyX]

Mods can play in any way they want, but they should keep their identity hidden from the public to spare the players from negative emotions. And they should be completely neutral towards forum topics and opinions of players because biased moderation is very upsetting to competitive people who care about the game.

[Dallane]

Mods can play in any way they want, but they should keep their identity hidden from the public to spare the players from negative emotions. And they should be completely neutral towards forum topics and opinions of players because biased moderation is very upsetting to competitive people who care about the game.

oh so they can give favors in secret? good idea. long as people don't know its ok.

show me where a mod isn't neutral on this forum.

don't bring stax into his HoB post. He hardly mods that.

[staxjax]

They should follow the rules by the book

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=262

But uhm, you are breaking the rules by continuing discussion about moderator performance after MagicManICT said to drop it.

[MagicManICT]

Well, to begin with it's about favouritism and players of Salem being particularly prone to extra negative reactions when they feel they've been mistreated.

Provide an example or quit parroting. Nobody has shown anyone any favoritism that I can see.

[Potjeh]

Don't blame the custom clients, people, blame the bot-friendly game mechanics. Even without an open client people would still find a way to modify it (just look at DF with it's Dwarf Therapist, Stonesense and a bunch of other programs that hook up directly into the game's memory), so let's stop fighting the symptoms and concentrate on the disease.

Hay spamming fields is obviously the first one on the list. And would you look at that, I've already made a thread about it, and the devs agreed with it. Another obvious one is chipping lime, and the oft-suggested solution to that is making the stamp mills work on all types of boulders.

Generally, all the mindless repetitive work needs to be automateable with in-game methods (ie various machinery that you can build). The effect of this would obviously be a significant increase in the overall pace of the game, which IMO is a good thing because it takes bloody ages to do anything, and as a casual player (1-2h a day) you can't really make any noticeable progress in one session. And yeah, all the spammy stuff that can't be automated, like fertilizing fields, needs to have heavily diminishing returns.

Overall, the goal should be to shift focus from grinding to decision making. Bots are pretty bad at making decisions (writing a good full-blown AI is a lot harder than it seems). But the main gains would really be in making the game more fun and casual-friendly. And AFAIK the devs already understand this, but nothing is being done ATM because that multi-server thing is the top priority right now. Just sit tight and things will get better eventually.

Oh, and I almost forgot: I am actually the Chief. And Dallane. And all the Russians. Not Realak, though.

[Realak]

Not Realak, though.

lies.

[Dallane]

Oh, and I almost forgot: I am actually the Chief. And Dallane. And all the Russians. Not Realak, though.

someone ban me(I'm Potjeh) plz

No sock-puppeting allowed. You are not allowed to have several forum accounts pretending to be different people.

[ZtyX]

A lot of the things I talk about are hypothetical while replying to Totallymoo (the quote).

Also, I didn't read beyond page 1 and I am still new to this forum, but thank you for telling me. I'll go and write a complaint in the appropriate section.