TL;DR: The Thread

[Thor]

+ My taxing is at 24% with that kind of salary.

[Claeyt]

Does anyone have any idea how well metal workers do in US?
For example CAD/CAM programmers or welders?

Pretty well. It's construction so it's seasonal but I've seen numbers between $50,000-70,000 USD thrown around for certified welders before. Obviously it depends on where you live and how expansive the construction market is at the moment.

nah, I've got a cousin whose a welder in St. Louis. He's been doing it about 5 years. He makes about 30,000-45,000 depending on the job. You Can probably make 50-70,000 or more in the Oil boom in North Dakota or NYC or someplace with a construction boom, but in most places it's closer to that amount you gave in Euro's. My best friend worked as a non-union iron worker for years (not as a welder, but construction and such) and he made about 14-18 dollars per hour during that time (so 28-36,000 per year).

+ My taxing is at 24% with that kind of salary.

bout the same here, maybe even a bit more.

[Thor]

+ My taxing is at 24% with that kind of salary.

bout the same here, maybe even a bit more.

Does US have progressive taxing?
I thought taxes there were much lower.

[Thor]

And our standard of living is quite high.
For example, my car costs about 2000$ year (mandatory insurance + car taxes).
Gasoline for it is about 8,3$ for a gallon. So filling up my tank (which has to be done every week or 1,5 a week) costs roughly 100 dollars.
Basic necessities from grocery store for a month about 500-800 dollars.
Well, what I'm trying to say is that Finland is a very expensive country to live in, and that's what every guy visiting here from abroad say.

[DemonEyes]

Clearly you cared that the woman promoted into the job was a woman, and may or may not have been hired to promote women in management. I care about every single person individually because that's where you can have the most success, by helping the individual. I care about promoting equality because I'm fighting the problem, which is your attitude that the mythical "they", are the problem.

You propogate the mythical 'they' and a mythical 'you lot'.. It was nothing to do that she was a woman.. It was that the company actively discriminated against me to hire said woman all due to pressure from 'equality' groups. As an update.. I came into work this morning to find a letter informing me that I am going to be promoted and the lady demoted to my current position, which is what should have happened 8 months ago.

Lets face it, regardless of your or my intent and belief, the fact that legislation has been required to force the change of society is an example of how humanity in general is bad.. not just white vs black, or man vs woman. Discrimination seems to be hardwired into how the human mind works, and this shows itself through positive discrimination as well as negative, the fact that people look at things and segregate in their minds into what this person is doing and what that person is doing and then picking the differences between them and making a stereotype is quite simply how we learn to understand the world, but when we take the assumptions that everyone has the same stereotypes as ourselves, this in itself is prejudice.

This is why I hate everyone equally. We are all *****.. we all live in a house.. how many homeless people are there? do you have floor space to let them sleep on, in the warm? Do you give it to them? No.. you dont.. I dont, people with 16 room manisons dont have 15 hobos staying there.. Humans are hardwired to be *****..

The best thing to do, is to live and let live, support the freedom of others to ensure your freedom will also be protected.. This is the essence of civilization, to deny someone freedom would be to be uncivilized. The loss of freedom is the only punishment we have for those who do uncivilized things and this is why we have prison, why limit the freedom of others who do not actively interfere with the freedom of others.. People should be able to hold racist views, as long as those views do not impact the freedom of others, the real issue is that this is something that humans struggle not to do. Someone with racist views, would more than likely not employ someone of another race.. however.. legislation stops that.. Should legislation stop him having his views and opinions?

[Claeyt]

And our standard of living is quite high.
For example, my car costs about 2000$ year (mandatory insurance + car taxes).
Gasoline for it is about 8,3$ for a gallon. So filling up my tank (which has to be done every week or 1,5 a week) costs roughly 100 dollars.
Basic necessities from grocery store for a month about 500-800 dollars.
Well, what I'm trying to say is that Finland is a very expensive country to live in, and that's what every guy visiting here from abroad say.

Yes we have a progressive tax. up into the 35% range. $40,000 would be about 25% for federal taxes. This wouldn't include Social Security or State taxes. Some states have taxes, some have sales taxes, some have no taxes but property taxes. Think of each state as it's own little country in most cases they range from 0-8% or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

Of course all of these taxes wouldn't include Health insurance which we pay more for per capita than any other country in the world. About $400-600 per month for 2 people depending if it's included in your job benefits or not.

It's a myth that the American middle class pays less in taxes than most of Europe or Canada. Canadians in the middle class pay less in taxes than Americans in the middle class and that includes health care of course. The rich and people making over 100,000 per year pay much less than all of Europe. Our capitol gains tax is lower than almost anywhere in the world. For example Mitt Romney who released his taxes for the election last year payed only 10-13% on an income of millions. Our highest tax rate for salaries is only 38%.

Car insurance ranges from 500-1500$ depending on your driving record. We don't have car taxes we have licenses ($100 per year here) and a sales tax on the car.

Gas and Groceries are much cheaper here. For example I only pay about $3 for a gallon of milk where I live, and just over $4 per gallon of gas (You do the math conversion because we don't use metric ) I remember shopping in Europe and being amazed how much more fruit was.

We have much less of a standard of living in some places and much more in others. For example Detroit now has the highest number of murders per capita in the entire Western Hemisphere, but other places are very safe. You will vast disparities between the poor and the rich. Gun violence is incredible here compared to Europe. For example my city of Madison, WI, pop. 220,000 people had 9 homicides by guns last year and we're one of the safest places in the country. Finland is much safer.

We have a lot of Freedoms tho, and it's very easy to move and change jobs and such. I would recommend travelling here before emigrating here. Also it's a big country and there's a big difference between places.

[Claeyt]

why limit the freedom of others who do not actively interfere with the freedom of others.. People should be able to hold racist views, as long as those views do not impact the freedom of others, the real issue is that this is something that humans struggle not to do. Someone with racist views, would more than likely not employ someone of another race.. however.. legislation stops that.. Should legislation stop him having his views and opinions?

Racist views inherently impact the freedom of others. We can't force people to change their minds, so we ostracize them for their views, as a society.

The opinion is racist, acting on racism is discrimination. We can legislate against the act, not the opinion.

...but

We can argue the idea behind those racist views in public, and point out repeatedly that those ideas are false.

[DemonEyes]

We can argue the idea behind those racist views in public, and point out repeatedly that those ideas are false.

This is the ideal, however what is happening is that because of the hardline approach to it, there is no open debate over the matters of racism, sexism and religious intolerance, and those who hold such views as you say are ostracized publicly.. there is no opportunity for reasoned arguments to enable us to point out those ideas as being false.. driving it underground and within peoples minds. Having communication moderated ensures that there is no ability to engage those with these views as the communication and freedom of speech is limited.

You cannot argue with someone to convince them without giving them the chance to say what they want, otherwise they feel lectured to and are even more unlikely to change their opinion. This is the essence of free speech and the benefits it does bring.

[Claeyt]

We can argue the idea behind those racist views in public, and point out repeatedly that those ideas are false.

This is the ideal, however what is happening is that because of the hardline approach to it, there is no open debate over the matters of racism, sexism and religious intolerance, and those who hold such views as you say are ostracized publicly.. there is no opportunity for reasoned arguments to enable us to point out those ideas as being false.. driving it underground and within peoples minds. Having communication moderated ensures that there is no ability to engage those with these views as the communication and freedom of speech is limited.

You cannot argue with someone to convince them without giving them the chance to say what they want, otherwise they feel lectured to and are even more unlikely to change their opinion. This is the essence of free speech and the benefits it does bring.

There's no place for those ideas to be said without shame. Over the last 100 yrs we've seen those ideas lose on battlefield after battlefield. They are false. Less people hold them today, than yesterday.

I hope we drive those ideas from the earth. They have no place in the society of this World.

You can say them to your hearts content, but I'll always call you a racist for saying them.

[Thor]

Yes we have a progressive tax. up into the 35% range. $40,000 would be about 25% for federal taxes. This wouldn't include Social Security or State taxes. Some states have taxes, some have sales taxes, some have no taxes but property taxes. Think of each state as it's own little country in most cases they range from 0-8% or so.

We also have different county taxes and locality taxes.

Of course all of these taxes wouldn't include Health insurance which we pay more for per capita than any other country in the world. About $400-600 per month for 2 people depending if it's included in your job benefits or not.

Holy sh.. Well healthcare here is very accessible for everyone, even if you are poor. Most medicine and doctor visits will be paid for you if you don't have any or low income.

It's a myth that the American middle class pays less in taxes than most of Europe or Canada. Canadians in the middle class pay less in taxes than Americans in the middle class and that includes health care of course. The rich and people making over 100,000 per year pay much less than all of Europe. Our capitol gains tax is lower than almost anywhere in the world. For example Mitt Romney who released his taxes for the election last year payed only 10-13% on an income of millions. Our highest tax rate for salaries is only 38%.

I think our taxes can go up to 80%-90%, theoretically speaking.
But there are ways to go around it.. Like income from renting apartments etc.

Gas and Groceries are much cheaper here. For example I only pay about $3 for a gallon of milk where I live, and just over $4 per gallon of gas (You do the math conversion because we don't use metric ) I remember shopping in Europe and being amazed how much more fruit was.

Don't get me started on beef prices..

We have much less of a standard of living in some places and much more in others. For example Detroit now has the highest number of murders per capita in the entire Western Hemisphere, but other places are very safe. You will vast disparities between the poor and the rich. Gun violence is incredible here compared to Europe. For example my city of Madison, WI, pop. 220,000 people had 9 homicides by guns last year and we're one of the safest places in the country. Finland is much safer.

I live 10km from the most dangerous city in Finland, last year 2167 crimes were made with population of 22 185
There are homicides too, can't say how many.

We have a lot of Freedoms tho, and it's very easy to move and change jobs and such. I would recommend travelling here before emigrating here. Also it's a big country and there's a big difference between places.

And your laws are much more fair than here.
Raping someone here might not get you in jail. Homicide for a person with no previous jail time & good behavior can get out in a year or two.
Sentence for life here means 13 years