TL;DR: The Thread

[DemonEyes]

Nobody can force anybody to change their opinion, only the person can change it.

Exactly yet laws are written to force the issue

It is, ....when they are being racist, or prejudiced, or discriminatory. In some cases it's actually against the law (ex. Neo-Nazi's in Germany)

See above.. prejudice is a terrible thing and should be stamped out one way or another, however if I dislike a black guy cos he is a ****, does that make me racist? for some it does. I have plenty of other black guys who are not twats whom i am friends with.. yet you would imply that I am racist.

No, it just makes you a *****.

That I am, and I am happy being a *****.. I have no concerns over accepting this fact.. the sooner everyone else does.. the sooner the world will be a much happier place.

You are just imagining that. Really you're just not very good at your job, and nobody likes you there because you're so bitter, and the people promoted over you are just better than you at the job.

The promotion I deserve at work is a natural progression of my career within the company from project engineer to project manager. I have all the qualifications and experience needed. I was offered the job initially, but higher management pushed for external employment and we got a lady with barely any experience and less qualifications than I. It is intimated to me from higher management that this was due to 'Recruitment Policy' nothing to do with my own personal circumstances. So please dont insult me with your ignorant guesstimations. (she is already on a disciplinary for sub-par performance so I rest my case)

That's just idiotic. Why wouldn't they take the patients with the most pressing needs first. They're not taking people based on race or sex or anything.

Wait your turn.

I have waited 16 weeks so far for a scan on my back for a possible prolapsed disc.. I had an appointment 6 weeks ago, I turned up and waited 4 hours, until I was told that the appointment should have been cancelled as it had been given to another.

At no point do I feel the need to be treated above anyone else, I just find that equality and fairness get others treated above me, whether they deserve it or not.

What you're feeling is the lack of white privilege. Clearly you think you're better if you think you deserve that promotion, or should be able to jump the line for medical care. Get used to it and welcome to the modern world where different types of people live and work with you.

I deserve that promotion as i described because I was most suitable for it, without a single hesitation all my colleagues agree. I do not wish to jump the line.. just be dealt with in line as described. Where in this is the want to have privilege?

No you don't believe in it. Just look at your last line.

I believe you have the right to say what you want.. I believe those that willfully interfere with the rights of others should have their rights removed.. nothing to do with limiting free speech, you can complain all you want, but if you try to legislate against what you dont agree with, that is a step too far and forcing the issue rather than reasoning it out

You're a jackass to quote Voltaire at me. He was one of the greatest Progressive philosopher's of the Enlightenment. He argued for Humanism, Civil Rights, Freedom from Religion, and against Slavery. Of course he was also a racist, anti-semite.

Voltaire did not say that..

You don't even know what the quote means. He was arguing for freedom of speech and freedom of the press so as to disparage the King and Church and tear down that very part of society that you miss so much. Or as Jorb calls them 'The Old Order' and of course he can be considered one of the father's of the French Revolution that the Dev's hate so much. He's generally associated (along with others) with the first two of the very Jacobian motto "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" and he was a VERY militant activist.

It means what it means. I may disagree with what you say, but value your right to say it. (and again he did not say it) It was not meant as a direct statement for or against any thing you mentioned but was made as a phrase to capture his philosophy. He fought for freedom of speech.. now you misrepresent history to try and justify your own limitations of his ideal.

Anyone who complains about what others say, to anyone other than the speaker, is a hypocrite to the worst degree. and will be shot when I get in power

...and so you show your true Fascist colors. Why were you trying to hide that if that's the way you feel.

It was meant flippantly.. even if i did get in power could i shoot all of those i didn't like? (justin beiber being head of the queue) you live in a fantasy world to think that this is either my real intention or serious consideration.

I'll tell you why, ...because the internet gives you the right to say stuff that you can't say in public, or at work. You feel that you're better than these brown skinned people, women, and people with disabilities. Well, you're not. You're just a white guy whose bitter that everybody else gets to participate now. If it's a right-wing libertarian in Scandinavia whose afraid he's lost his country to immigrants and refugees, or a British National Party Oi-Boy who doesn't like the Curry-Lickers, or a Texas Tea-party Anti-Tax Retiree on Social Security, or just a British guy who likes posting stuff he wouldn't say in public. You guys are the hypocrites, because you think that you deserve something. You hate that the 'Others' are now 'equal' to you, and you're afraid of the future.

I say everything I would post in public, I tell my friends, family, colleagues, I tell everyone who wishes to listen. You refer to me as bitter.. Hell yeah, if you had half a brain you would be too.. unless you are part of the problem. I dont believe how everyone isn't bitter (apart from those that those we are bitter towards). I am bitter that less than 0.1% of the worlds population control 10% of the wealth. I am bitter that I work my ass off paying all my taxes and a large company the size of Apple and Google pay a pittance of tax. These are the things I am bitter about..

Asians, africans, Americans.. I dont really care what someone is.. I care WHO they are.. and this is often forgotten when people like you talk about equality and fairness. you only care that the perpetrator is one thing and the victim is another. You don't care who they are. You my friend are the problem..

[TeckXKnight]

What would happen to me, if I moved in to US and wouldn't work or try to find work?

That depends if you're on a green card or if you have full citizenship. On a green card you'd be asked to leave and your card would not be renewed. If you're a full citizen then you have the option to apply for welfare or you can simply become homeless.

[Thor]

What would happen to me, if I moved in to US and wouldn't work or try to find work?

That depends if you're on a green card or if you have full citizenship. On a green card you'd be asked to leave and your card would not be renewed. If you're a full citizen then you have the option to apply for welfare or you can simply become homeless.

Well I suppose that's what motivates people to work in there.
What do you think would happen if they'd get an apartment and a steady income for food, clothes and all necessities + couple hundred dollars extra for free without working?

[TeckXKnight]

Well I suppose that's what motivates people to work in there.
What do you think would happen if they'd get an apartment and a steady income for food, clothes and all necessities + couple hundred dollars extra for free without working?

That's difficult to say. In my opinion a large base of the low skilled labor would fall off of the map so we'd lose a good bit of the retail industry and the like. Many areas are filled with people seeking prestige and acclaim over money. I believe we'd still have a fairly strong engineering and science base -- but there might be a fair bit of struggle without the labor necessary to put everything together.

I wonder if there have ever been any experiments done on this situation? Any cultures in the past that have tried something similar to this?

[Thor]

I wonder if there have ever been any experiments done on this situation? Any cultures in the past that have tried something similar to this?

Yes, I think every Nordic country has this system.

[TeckXKnight]

Yes, I think every Nordic country has this system.

Wait really? Gosh am I uncultured. What are your unemployment situations like?

[Thor]

Yes, I think every Nordic country has this system.

Wait really? Gosh am I uncultured. What are your unemployment situations like?

It's bad, roughly 12%.
It was only worse in our 90's economical depression.
Now we have European financial crisis..

[Borgins]

[Claeyt]

That's just idiotic. Why wouldn't they take the patients with the most pressing needs first.

I have waited 16 weeks so far for a scan on my back for a possible prolapsed disc.. I had an appointment 6 weeks ago, I turned up and waited 4 hours, until I was told that the appointment should have been cancelled as it had been given to another.

How is this showing favoritism against you. It sounds like a scheduling mistake.

At no point do I feel the need to be treated above anyone else, I just find that equality and fairness get others treated above me, whether they deserve it or not.

What you're feeling is the lack of white privilege. Clearly you think you're better if you think you deserve that promotion, or should be able to jump the line for medical care. Get used to it and welcome to the modern world where different types of people live and work with you.

I deserve that promotion as i described because I was most suitable for it, without a single hesitation all my colleagues agree. I do not wish to jump the line.. just be dealt with in line as described. Where in this is the want to have privilege?

It sure sounds like you think that you deserve that job.

No you don't believe in it. Just look at your last line.

I believe you have the right to say what you want.. I believe those that willfully interfere with the rights of others should have their rights removed.. nothing to do with limiting free speech, you can complain all you want, but if you try to legislate against what you don't agree with, that is a step too far and forcing the issue rather than reasoning it out.

Immediate direct legislation or action taken by the judiciary against discrimination, racism, and "Beliefs or Rights" is why the U.S. and South Africa don't have schools segregated by race, and why two people of a different race can now marry. Directly confronting your beliefs is my right (and yours). Saying you are wrong is my right (and yours). Actively working through the Democratic system and letting those Democratic institutions take direct actions against your beliefs is also my right (and yours).

You're a jackass to quote Voltaire at me. He was one of the greatest Progressive philosopher's of the Enlightenment. He argued for Humanism, Civil Rights, Freedom from Religion, and against Slavery. Of course he was also a racist, anti-semite.

Voltaire did not say that.

It means what it means. I may disagree with what you say, but value your right to say it. (and again he did not say it) It was not meant as a direct statement for or against any thing you mentioned but was made as a phrase to capture his philosophy. He fought for freedom of speech.. now you misrepresent history to try and justify your own limitations of his ideal.

I'm not misrepresenting history at all. Voltaire as the father of historiography would love it that we're interpreting him through the eyes of history. You're the one attributing Libertarianism to Voltaire. He fought the state against religious persecution, slavery, and yes, the freedom of speech. He would not have fought for your ideas about immigrants or equality.

The Very Republican National Assembly reburied him in the Pantheon immediately following the French Revolution so hated by our Dev's. The King and Church tried to deny him a christian burial. He was seen as a pillar of thought for the idea of taking action for "The progress of the human condition" and the rights of man.

The quote is attributed to him by his 3rd biographer. She may have been quoting a letter, she may have been editing a sentence he said that was similar, she may have been summarizing his beliefs. We don't know.... but she said he said it and it was based on his beliefs.

The exact quote:

The men who had hated [the book], and had not particularly loved Helvétius, flocked round him now. Voltaire forgave him all injuries, intentional or unintentional. 'What a fuss about an omelette!' he had exclaimed when he heard of the burning. How abominably unjust to persecute a man for such an airy trifle as that! 'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,' was his attitude now.

Anyone who complains about what others say, to anyone other than the speaker, is a hypocrite to the worst degree. and will be shot when I get in power

...and so you show your true Fascist colors. Why were you trying to hide that if that's the way you feel.

It was meant flippantly.. even if i did get in power could i shoot all of those i didn't like? (justin beiber being head of the queue) you live in a fantasy world to think that this is either my real intention or serious consideration.

Yet, you said it. You'd probably be in front of the queue if they asked for volunteers to shoot people that the state disagreed with.

I say everything I would post in public, I tell my friends, family, colleagues, I tell everyone who wishes to listen. You refer to me as bitter.. Hell yeah, if you had half a brain you would be too.. unless you are part of the problem. I dont believe how everyone isn't bitter (apart from those that those we are bitter towards). I am bitter that less than 0.1% of the worlds population control 10% of the wealth. I am bitter that I work my ass off paying all my taxes and a large company the size of Apple and Google pay a pittance of tax. These are the things I am bitter about..

Work against the laws and political parties that support those economic problems then. By supporting the right wing of your countries political party you support those laws.

Again, if you say things like how that woman isn't good for 'your' job, but was hired because she was a woman, then people will look at you strangely. If you blame everything on Immigration and women's rights then you will be marginalized for your views, because you are misdirecting your anger towards them. Instead fight why those policies need to be in place. Fight against the view that women can't do the job, by supporting them for promotion. Fight against the view that immigrants are sucking the country dry by supporting programs that bring immigrants into the workforce and help them integrate into society. Your tax dollars already go to some of these. Isn't it worth it to help it along instead of fighting it.

Asians, africans, Americans.. I dont really care what someone is.. I care WHO they are.. and this is often forgotten when people like you talk about equality and fairness. you only care that the perpetrator is one thing and the victim is another. You don't care who they are. You my friend are the problem..

Clearly you cared that the woman promoted into the job was a woman, and may or may not have been hired to promote women in management. I care about every single person individually because that's where you can have the most success, by helping the individual. I care about promoting equality because I'm fighting the problem, which is your attitude that the mythical "they", are the problem.

[Ass_Kraken]

Anyone who complains about what others say, to anyone other than the speaker, is a hypocrite to the worst degree. and will be shot when I get in power

...and so you show your true Fascist colors. Why were you trying to hide that if that's the way you feel.

I don't know which is more pathetic, you thinking that was serious, or whoever falls for you trying to make that seem serious.