Why is there so few people playing the game? - Moved

[darnokpl]

@darnokpl: Agree with the permadeath being a big factor in the differences between EVE and Salem. However, what do you have to replace that titan that just got toasted? ... A basic PvP murder alt takes about a week or two, at most, of feeding at the most to prepare, and I'm sure it can be done in a few days if enough resources are around... The reality is permadeath is just a really big death penalty, not really complete loss.

Yes, I do understand this... I said

... ship=char...

when you talk about those two games.

For complete loss, it'll take someone coming along and leveling your settlement or town (or at least stealing it so you can't use it after inheritence). I think when that lesson soaks into most people's minds, it doesn't become as big a tragedy.

Again yes, you just said same thing, but with different words.
Good that at least one person thinks same

If saying "tragedy" you meant loosing char is something that new people must learn in Salem and do not cry about it
then Imho

Without this introduction, the same people "might/do" leave before they even understand anything,

works great with your words too.
Just because in any other game you may loose super hiper mega items,
but your character is immortal and people are used to it too much to appreciate Salem innovation for this difference.

[_Gunnar]

@ procne: the point is if someone griefs/annoys you on a non-pvp server then there is *literally nothing* you can do about it - hiring GMs to police such a server is just unrealistic imo. Griefing that you can't do anything against is the "best" kind (from the griefer's POV). And it really doesnt take a lot of effort to build & claim a fence around a small camp.

and the point about moral nihilism: perhaps j&l don't want to force people to behave in a decent fashion. being a ranger (in haven, i'm a newbie here) was fun, and an important part of the game. an absence of externally imposed laws does not mean that an emergent (or intrinsic) morality cannot exist. in haven i policed a good part of my area, i knew most of the people living around me and i got rid of (non-superpower) criminals, and i see no reason why people who are playing regularly can't do the same here.

the "evil" large groups like chief etc are a slightly different class of problem, especially with current mechanics, but the conflict between large groups of different "alignments" are a really important part of the game for the hardcore players.

[baronbowden]

sorry to back track, on page 2 Dallane says this game is profitable????


Where did ya get that info from Dallane, that's great news but surprising.

[Steve]

Looks like this thread has gone so far off-topic (with help from some moderators) that it might as well get closed. It could have been a valuable topic.

Many people tried the game, and many people left the game. That has nothing to do with the pissing contest about permadeath here but has all to do with the simple fact that many people find the first 2-40 hours of gameplay in Salem completely boring: running around on a huge map without any interesting features, watching a mini-map, picking up stuff and gobbling it down. That's Salem's gameplay and few people find that compelling enough to continue with the game.

From the few that continue with the game a good chunk leaves the game after they have build up a place because there's little left to do in the game after that but slaughtering other players. And no, building wall #3 to #20 is no compelling gameplay for most people either.

Guys, this whole discussion about permadeath has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Only a tiny minority of the people that left the game did so because of permadeath. The majority left because they found the gameplay not good enough.

[MvGulik]

Many people tried the game, and many people left the game. That has nothing to do with the pissing contest about permadeath here but has all to do with the simple fact that many people find the first 2-40 hours of gameplay in Salem completely boring: running around on a huge map without any interesting features, watching a mini-map, picking up stuff and gobbling it down. That's Salem's gameplay and few people find that compelling enough to continue with the game.

[Tonkyhonk]

Like I said before: you still focused on only one thing I did wrong in this game.

*sighs* youre still missing my point there, darnokpl. guess i wasnt clear enough, so ill give it one more try.
once again, it is not whether your action was "right" or "wrong". im saying your suggestion and your action are conflicting.

was Oin a griefer? no, just another peaceful player. but his actions made you think he was a criminal leader, right?
were you a griefer? no, just another town leader trying to stop the expanding criminal settlement, right?
you chose to murder when you didnt have to, but you thought you had to and believe you are justified while oin doesnt believe so.
(you had to kill him to not get killed is not relevant, you leave scents of bettery and asssault meaning you could get summon-killed in this "training" server according to your set rule, unless your rule says "stealing" is the only crime and attacking others isnt.)

doesnt this situation exactly explain what jorb said?


btw, as for those wannabe griefers such as chief and darwoth, dont regard them as human players, they are just NPCs that talk bs.

[MagicManICT]

Looks like this thread has gone so far off-topic (with help from some moderators) that it might as well get closed. It could have been a valuable topic.

It's a pretty generic thread and, yeah, it's taken quite a few directions. That's not any reason to lock it as it's better to have the discussion all in one place than scattered all over. Some discussions, they're much like Pandora's Box--once you open it, you can never close it again.

[TotalyMoo]

Guys, this whole discussion about permadeath has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Only a tiny minority of the people that left the game did so because of permadeath. The majority left because they found the gameplay not good enough.

This post gave me a reason to bump in to this thread.

Right now we can only speculate about what actually gets people to leave Salem, but starting now(ish) we have a full time statistics and metrics lady who is going to put almost all her effort in to Salem and figuring out what players dislike. We will use this data to give Jorbtar a more concrete picture of what turns people off.

So hopefully we'll find the biggest gamekillers and deal with them -- somehow.

[Oddity]

It's the default client's camera, I tells ya. Kicks the player retention rate right in the balls.

Just think of how many thousands of beta keys they gave away...

[painhertz]

It's not that damned camera...It's Forage Quest for a LONG time then it's just build a place/war. For the life of me I can't pin down why haven is so much better , maybe more tools? More **** to do? I dunno. I would have just made a 3D haven and been done with it. I think it's just that Colonial America just "wasn't" that exciting, and the parts of Salem that WOULD make it so, Witchcraft, monsters, etc etc haven't been added....possibly never will be.