Haven and Hearth: eternal alpha

[Nikixos]

A hardcore player can buy a yearly subscription as low as 6$ / month for unlimited playtime, which is very cheap!!

That is 2 games for the newest consoles to pay an unfinished game from 2 jews, ***** off please.

[Forungi]

The game just feels like a dumbed down Salem. But maybe i'm being biased.

Yes I know that Salem is made off of the original Haven core, but still, it is abit silly.

[Claeyt]

That's nothing to what Salem's store brought in over the last year from what I've worked out. I'm sure Salem is still a part time job for all our dev's and it's split more ways but at least they make some money at it and it has a lot more room for growth and new players than HnH will ever have now.

Sometimes I wonder what's going on in your head.

Well, JC told me what percent Bankee's contribution was and Bankee told me how much he spent. It's simple math after that. I doubt you guys made any money but it's more than Haven's ever going to make. Don't worry, I think you guys deserve much more for how hard you've worked on the game. I hope you keep it up because honestly I think this whole HnH thing might be the best thing to ever happen to Salem. I think if you guys keep coming up with interesting and fun expeditions, we'll keep buying all the vanity crap you come up with. I know I will as long as you guys aren't trolling me in-game.

We've been holding steady at between 830-900 daily players after that initial rush at release, even though Popham is slouching a bit due to witchery advances. I think we need a little encouragement on Popham. A lot of people seem to think that's it's all but won and they're a little discouraged I think. I hope there's still some black horse candidates out there. (when are we going to get different colored horses) Maybe we need something new we can mail back to Providence. Some new flower or something interesting that fits in an envelope instead of an ark.

I think that Salem is better suited to attracting new players because it's more fun and less grindy than Hafen imo. Also you guys are open to advertising, streaming and other game promotions. If you keep trying to promote it through cheap and easy ways like the new YouTube streaming service you'll keep attracting new players. Darwoth's right in that Hafen's mostly just a new skin/graphics/animations on their old system. Salem could use some new skins in the very, very long term but I think overall it's still the game with the greater potential. I haven't worked out the full mechanics over there yet but it's still a slower, grindier game than Salem since the changes over here.

Anyways, I think the numbers will probably jump a bit due to the Hafen wars and they'll jump back up into the thousands if you guys do another Expedition release after someone wins Popham. We're at double the numbers we were last spring so that's encouraging.

I hope someday you guys can make a decent living from Salem. I know I'll keep promoting it as long as you guys keep deving new stuff into it.

The game just feels like a dumbed down Salem.

It just seems like more fun playing Salem now with Witchcraft, fruit, bees and the new monsters. There's a lot more to do in Salem now than in Hafen from what I can tell. The dev's are also better in a lot of ways. There's more of them and they've got better ideas in general imo. Lorb have the same problem that they had when they were dev'ing Salem. They're the only 2 giving any input and they don't want to listen to anyone else, especially their player base.

A quote from Jorb on the H&H forum:

There was no secrecy. We just didn't tell you. There's a difference. Also, what difference does it really make? Whenever we told you it would still now be the 29th of August, and you'd be in the same spot you are now.

I'd love to abandon this bastard tongue entirely and speak a cultured language like Swedish, but unfortunately you are too uneducated to really understand a word of that, so I can't. QQ

If you expect me to entertain a civil discussion with you about anything then you need to step up your game.

He called English a bastard tongue and everyone who doesn't speak swedish uneducated. Oh lawd, I am laughing.

The way they are handling the p2p poostorm is breaking my heart. Jorb is on the defensive, even talking about possibly taking the game down. They're ignoring all constructive criticism.

I love how they try to act life profissional but they are ***** childs with a computer and a game engine. When a guy on forum said a lot of people will stop playing and the game sink, jorb just said he will be honored to sink like an "profissional" rofl.

Hafen is dead, Salem is too grindy, Albion is so jewish that they are charging 30 bucks so you can test it and the hype will explode too.

GG Crafting MMOs.

Mariucia didn't mention the one where Jorb told all the players who were complaining about the Paywall surprise to "***** off".

They've always been horrible public relations devs. It's been their fatal flaw.

Salem's much less grindy than it used to be. They've changed a bunch of the purity stuff and how stuff gets purity. Purity's just a little bonus now instead of an all consuming grind. It's much more playable now.

There's actually been a ton of new crafting MMO's out this last year. Ark, Albion, Tree of lIfe, Life is Feudal, DayZ keeps getting updates. Rust is still alive. All of them had their fatal flaws imo. Albion kept making people pay for Alpha tests and should have been released last year, it's also way to hard to survive without a massive guild. Tree of Life got too cartoony and the hype got too much as it turned into a Korean anime game. Life is Feudal is way to buggy and grindy. Ark seems cool but I don't know about the whole dinosaur thing, too much PvP. Anyways there's lots of choices but all of those cost money whereas Salem is free.

Edit: The Hafen wars are up to 190 pages now between the 2 threads. That's in less than a day and a half. Sabinati's fingers must be numb from cutting out all the wandering posts.

[Amnezia88]

Salem Above All!

But as in PR they probably did a reaally bad jeb.
Of course everyone wants to play for free so they could've expected the sh*tstorm that came over them ( i'm surprised by the responses of the dev )
I think they should've announced it in some way, or just ask for a small b2p donation for 6 months and that after 6 months they'll decide if this game NEEDS a sub based subscription to 'grow and prosper to the most awesome titrocking crafting game eva, to keep the server alive, to keep updating and keep you guys happy etc etc etc'

If it's true that most will quit after their 48hours and move on to greener pastures they'll probably dim down the sub cost lower and lower untill it gets f2p again or $1-2 dollar a month, compensating the 'fanfools' that paid the fee like a loyal puppy.

The weirdest thing i still find is that how they'd come with the 10-15$, it's so high if you'd compare it to other MMOs.
But hell, what do i know, maybe the people are crazy enough and jorb and his bud will be able to fill their pockets to the max, i've seen weirder things happen.

For us Salemites...let's hope that wont happen, JC & Co might get weird ideas...

[Claeyt]

Salem Above All!

But as in PR they probably did a reaally bad jeb.

For us Salemites...let's hope that wont happen, JC & Co might get weird ideas...

They chose the absolute worst possible way to monetize the game. There's other ways but there are 3 main ways to monetize a game:

1. Buy2Pay which most games like that choose. B2P means slow growth of new players but a dedicated fanbase.

2. Free2Play with Microtransactions like what Salem or League of Legends use. You make less in the initial discovery by new players but if you have dedicated or are planning on supporting a dedicated player base it generally leads to more money in the long run. Games of course can run both B2P and Microtransactions but that can make them seem greedy. The other big problem with Microtransactions is Play2Win problems. P2W has to be avoided but a pay to grow system like Salem's is okay in my mind. Salem doesn't sell anything better than what you can make in-game really.

3. The third choice is Hafen's subscription system which everyone hates. Only really big and popular games get away with it. I payed subscription this last year for ESO and it was only $5 bucks a month. They're now offering it for free after you B2P and I got a pile of fun stuff for paying for subscription for the year. Jorb and loftar chose the worst possible system in my opinion and they mostly sprung it on their dedicated player base.

They did a horrible job of PR for the games release.

[JohnCarver]

I don't care about Haven. But I will say that if Salem had a monthly fee on top of the current style pay2win store (I say that with love, because it works), I wouldn't play Salem.

So if Haven is doing store perks/pay2win, on top of monthly, with their permanent trial...

We can be sure, at least, however it goes, that Salem can learn from Haven's mistakes. Not sure the end result but I am confident we won't get that treatment here. This is AMERICA!

We will indeed be watching Haven very closely and probably even play it for a bit and see if we can't learn a thing or two from all the improvements that they have implemented. We have never been shy to take inspiration from other titles and given that SeaTribe is still financially incentivized for our financial success here I"m sure they wouldn't mind if we borrowed a few things from what works over there and left alone what doesn't in the times ahead. Some constructive criticism of Haven on what works and doesn't work is certainly a welcome read.

[Ailaa]

I don't care about Haven. But I will say that if Salem had a monthly fee on top of the current style pay2win store (I say that with love, because it works), I wouldn't play Salem.

So if Haven is doing store perks/pay2win, on top of monthly, with their permanent trial...

We can be sure, at least, however it goes, that Salem can learn from Haven's mistakes. Not sure the end result but I am confident we won't get that treatment here. This is AMERICA!

We will indeed be watching Haven very closely and probably even play it for a bit and see if we can't learn a thing or two from all the improvements that they have implemented. We have never been shy to take inspiration from other titles and given that SeaTribe is still financially incentivized for our financial success here I"m sure they wouldn't mind if we borrowed a few things from what works over there and left alone what doesn't in the times ahead. Some constructive criticism of Haven on what works and doesn't work is certainly a welcome read.

One thing that is genius though is the "Survey Land" terraforming tool, you should reconsider it in Salem. It's great!

[HolyLight]

There's actually been a ton of new crafting MMO's out this last year. Ark, Albion, Tree of lIfe, Life is Feudal, DayZ keeps getting updates. Rust is still alive. All of them had their fatal flaws imo. Albion kept making people pay for Alpha tests and should have been released last year, it's also way to hard to survive without a massive guild. Tree of Life got too cartoony and the hype got too much as it turned into a Korean anime game. Life is Feudal is way to buggy and grindy. Ark seems cool but I don't know about the whole dinosaur thing, too much PvP. Anyways there's lots of choices but all of those cost money whereas Salem is free.

Ill list them as i own 4 of the 6 in mention.

I own:
Ark : Played a handful of hours, way too grindy to even get the basics started, Team required game, you will be endlessly picking up the same rocks/berrys for hours and hours on end to gain a little exp to build the most basic of bases. You will log off for the night and log back in to find your base has been trampled to dust by a max level group riding a huge mofo dino who just wanted to walk over your base to ensure server dominance and nothing more.

LIF: Way too buggy, still waiting on them mining bugs / lag issues to be fixed, terraforming causes the whole game to be unplayable hence most private servers make it a bannable offence if you attempt to do either. It has a big grind but its a rather easy grind and A>B>C with the materials so nothing goes to waste and can be quite fun. There is also NO OFFICAL SERVERS, Why the ***** did i purchase this game again?

DayZ: Well Pointless to mention how worthless this game is. Zombies ? Unless you are on a private modded server its a pointless game, the offical version is a pile of dead crap

Rust: Still keeping me intrested, still playing rust (got 150hours in past 2 weeks), however i did stop playing for some 14 months during its redevelopment into its current model. Current problems are the most active offical servers are under consistant DDOS attacks with monthly map wipes, and with consistant gamebreaking changes, the game is very unstable but it is still in alpha right ? Everyone insists you should play on private servers for better experiences, but i didnt buy a game from a company to play on some pisshead 14yr old arabs server who does what he likes like spawning items for his friends etc ? Same problems as DayZ. Also its apparant perma death feature is a lie. Its a full loot game nothing else.

I Do not own:

Albion : I really want to play this, failed to get into any of the free alphas/betas and im glad i never paid for the alpha / beta access, as it is a clear ***** scam. The game should have been released early this year and was advertised in its early days in kickstarter as 100% free, only to get a nice kickstarter fund, then charge endlessly for Access's. Still waiting, but from reading and keeping upto date with it, ill be waiting another couple of years at least and will then need to pay for the game(Retail), then a monthly sub ontop for perks. Not bad for an indi company, retail + sub, funded by a kickstarter. Shocking.

Tree of Life : I actually come across this game yesterday when browsing the steam store, however after reading about its already massive hype high and fall to dust im reluctant to even try it. From my understanding the game is so broken, buggy and unbalanced its really not worth playing at the moment, but i still really want to play this game. Might actually try it this week.

Overall, there is still very little on the market Like salem or Haven that offer what salem and haven give. There are so many titles with great potentional but Most games are now nothing more than hyped up piles of ****, designed to look fancy, rip off a hyped up player base earning millions then producing nothing.

2 Games that look intresting:

Rising World <--- will be a very basic game, but the concept and mining system are really nice
Universe Sandbox 2 <--- Just Sheer fun

[Rubberduckbandit]

Honestly there's tons of cookie cutter games for this genre now it's not even "unique" anymore for that to be their defense on their poor excuse of a game, and ludicrous prices.

[HolyLight]

Honestly there's tons of cookie cutter games for this genre now it's not even "unique" anymore for that to be their defense on their poor excuse of a game, and ludicrous prices.

The cookie cutter games of this genre you mention are nothing but steaming piles of ****, designed to scam a community out of money for a game that will never materialise into anything.

At least Haven in its attempt to scam a community out of cash actually has some substance, You know They want to jump onto the bandwagon and earn millions as well, but it was done in the wrong way.

They should have made a new company "SeaCity", done concepts to make Haven2.0 in unity or another real 3D game engine, have a mining system like in the game i mentioned above, and then ask for a $1m kick starter. they might have actually of made it rich then.