Siege of Celestis

[Feone]

this was correct pre-wipe. now the speed of gaining biles is reduced heavily at higher biles - therefore there is no big difference between an "older" or "younger" characters. Only between people who put much effort in raising biles and people who don't.

I don't think that's correct. The slower progression just means it'll take longer to get to that point.

[Kandarim]

i.e. it takes less time (due to diminishing returns of the biles) for difference to become negligible as compared to difference in skill (mainly speaking about combat then).

[Snowpig]

no, because the progression slows down the higher the biles become. Example:

example:
- you need 2 hours to get to 10/10/10/10
- you need additional 2 hours to get to 15/15/15/15
- another 2 to get to 18/18/18/18
- another 2 to get to 20/20/20/20

after 2 hours of play the difference between a character started at 0 to one started at 2h is: +10/+10/+10/+10
after 4 hours of play the difference becomes +5/+5/+5/+5
after 6 hours +3/+3/+3/+3
after 8 hours +2/+2/+2/+2

now compare the guy started from beginning with one started 4 hours later:
4h: +15/+15/+15/+15
6h: +8/+8/+8/+8
8h: +5/+5/+5/+5

it works in a similar manner in the game (obviously with other numbers). But the main prerequisite to "keep up" is to raise biles as fast as possible.

[Kandarim]

exactly! thanks for putting it into numbers!

You could also take a step further: snowpig's argument illustrates that the relative bile level will approach eachother towards the limit (due to diminishing returns). On top of that, the return from a given bile level is also diminishing, i.e. the relative actual damage output difference will lower even faster than the relative bile level difference, because damage calculations are based on sqrt(yellow bile).

[nonsonogiucas]

I think that a great deal about character disparity stems from 2 facts

1) You have 4 biles but in reality it is just level.
You can raise the biles all at the same time and there is no point in not doing so. The consequence is that every character ends up having:

a surrogate of a level = bile level
(blood) > hit-points = (that scales linearly with) = level
(yellow) > dps = (that scales linearly with) = level
(phlegm) > stamina = (that scales linearly with) = level
(black) > passive resistance = (that scales linearly with) = level

2) There is no way that a higher level character will ever be caught off guard or unprepared (out of his armor or spaceship, to use other games examples) because you always have something like embedded armor and weapon.

There is thus no point in elaborating strategies like surprise attacks... for there is no "unprepared" state to be in.


So the problem is not that some players are too powerful, but that the only thing you can really do about it is trying to get to a similar level yourself... which brings back the game to a place where most MMORPGS we despise are...

[Orcling]

I think that a great deal about character disparity stems from 2 facts

1) You have 4 biles but in reality it is just level.
You can raise the biles all at the same time and there is no point in not doing so. The consequence is that every character ends up having:

a surrogate of a level = bile level
(blood) > hit-points = (that scales linearly with) = level
(yellow) > dps = (that scales linearly with) = level
(phlegm) > stamina = (that scales linearly with) = level
(black) > passive resistance = (that scales linearly with) = level

2) There is no way that a higher level character will ever be caught off guard or unprepared (out of his armor or spaceship, to use other games examples) because you always have something like embedded armor and weapon.

There is thus no point in elaborating strategies like surprise attacks... for there is no "unprepared" state to be in.


So the problem is not that some players are too powerful, but that the only thing you can really do about it is trying to get to a similar level yourself... which brings back the game to a place where most MMORPGS we despise are...

I dont think you realize how much combat experience, advantage in numbers and such effect foightin'. Sure, higher biles help, but theres plenty of stories of lowbile foos assraping some highbile foo. Or "level", as you call it. I suggest you try out combat instead of just talking about it. I bet tribe would love to assist you in that regard.

[vienradzis]

I think that a great deal about character disparity stems from 2 facts

1) You have 4 biles but in reality it is just level.
You can raise the biles all at the same time and there is no point in not doing so. The consequence is that every character ends up having:

a surrogate of a level = bile level
(blood) > hit-points = (that scales linearly with) = level
(yellow) > dps = (that scales linearly with) = level
(phlegm) > stamina = (that scales linearly with) = level
(black) > passive resistance = (that scales linearly with) = level

2) There is no way that a higher level character will ever be caught off guard or unprepared (out of his armor or spaceship, to use other games examples) because you always have something like embedded armor and weapon.

There is thus no point in elaborating strategies like surprise attacks... for there is no "unprepared" state to be in.


So the problem is not that some players are too powerful, but that the only thing you can really do about it is trying to get to a similar level yourself... which brings back the game to a place where most MMORPGS we despise are...

Again giving pro tips about things you dont understand where is your backup video to proof you are right?

[Snowpig]

I dont think you realize how much combat experience, advantage in numbers and such effect foightin'. Sure, higher biles help, but theres plenty of stories of lowbile foos assraping some highbile foo. Or "level", as you call it. I suggest you try out combat instead of just talking about it. I bet tribe would love to assist you in that regard.

This.

Higher biles help a bit. But they do not substitute pvp-skill and/or equipment.

[Feone]

I dont think you realize how much combat experience, advantage in numbers and such effect foightin'. Sure, higher biles help, but theres plenty of stories of lowbile foos assraping some highbile foo. Or "level", as you call it. I suggest you try out combat instead of just talking about it. I bet tribe would love to assist you in that regard.

This.

Higher biles help a bit. But they do not substitute pvp-skill and/or equipment.

Both gear and experience are also factors that aid the older players. Salem is not an easy game to get into pvp, the odds are stacked rather strongly against you.

[TruthTeller]

I dont think you realize how much combat experience, advantage in numbers and such effect foightin'. Sure, higher biles help, but theres plenty of stories of lowbile foos assraping some highbile foo. Or "level", as you call it. I suggest you try out combat instead of just talking about it. I bet tribe would love to assist you in that regard.

This.

Higher biles help a bit. But they do not substitute pvp-skill and/or equipment.

Pvp skill is related to having resources to spend recovering biles as well as manpower to practice against. May also need to have the manpower and defences to protect occasional battery scent nodes from practicing.

If people have unlimited access to "safe" training and equal gear, then eventually it will come down to mechanical hand-mouse skill. Those who reached platinum plus as ADC (adc is the most mechanically intensive role in LoL) in League of Legends would certainly do extremely well at that point.