New expedition - Just launch it

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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby TheDuke86 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:56 pm

toddesloan wrote:
Dallane wrote:
toddesloan wrote:I am down. Trying to get into Haven and Earth atm. And that chit is awful. lol


Its almost the exact same game tho lol


Exactly lol. I do like it's gluttony system way better though :lol:


The more I get used to HnH the more I notice it feels like a finished game getting updates. Salem has to many aspects that are just unfinished. I have been enjoying my time greatly on haven
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:04 pm

:|
Reviresco wrote:I log into this game and have fun.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Judaism » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:49 pm

TheDuke86 wrote:
toddesloan wrote:The more I get used to HnH the more I notice it feels like a finished game getting updates. Salem has to many aspects that are just unfinished. I have been enjoying my time greatly on haven


No experience with Haven here, but what is the end-game content in this game and what is it in Haven.

For example how is the PvE there, is it more statisfying and rewarding? I mean, is it needed to make clothes, do they drop more items yada yada.
The PvP/Raid scene I know its a lot more active, but is it also better and does it make more sense? I mean can you simply TBC yourself out of combat, spam wing-a-rangs, or run away with a cricket within 2 seconds, or use other consumeables such as watches etc?

How is the crafting, is it more complex? How is the trade-off in terms of items to craft, base-building, food recipes yada yada.

I generally do not know most of it, but I seriously do wonder in which aspects Salem is better than Haven and vice versa.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Memento » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:26 am

Whats the point of playing an expedition if they change the rules in the middle of it?

#DevAbuse #RiverRemoval
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Dallane » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:28 am

Judaism wrote:
TheDuke86 wrote:
toddesloan wrote:The more I get used to HnH the more I notice it feels like a finished game getting updates. Salem has to many aspects that are just unfinished. I have been enjoying my time greatly on haven


No experience with Haven here, but what is the end-game content in this game and what is it in Haven.

For example how is the PvE there, is it more statisfying and rewarding? I mean, is it needed to make clothes, do they drop more items yada yada.
The PvP/Raid scene I know its a lot more active, but is it also better and does it make more sense? I mean can you simply TBC yourself out of combat, spam wing-a-rangs, or run away with a cricket within 2 seconds, or use other consumeables such as watches etc?

How is the crafting, is it more complex? How is the trade-off in terms of items to craft, base-building, food recipes yada yada.

I generally do not know most of it, but I seriously do wonder in which aspects Salem is better than Haven and vice versa.


oh man you just opened a big rabbit hole.

I encourage you to check all of that out and see how things work because you will actually feel extremely rewarded once you get into it.
Please click this link for a better salem forum experience

TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby TheDuke86 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 am

Judaism wrote:
TheDuke86 wrote:
toddesloan wrote:The more I get used to HnH the more I notice it feels like a finished game getting updates. Salem has to many aspects that are just unfinished. I have been enjoying my time greatly on haven


No experience with Haven here, but what is the end-game content in this game and what is it in Haven.

For example how is the PvE there, is it more statisfying and rewarding? I mean, is it needed to make clothes, do they drop more items yada yada.
The PvP/Raid scene I know its a lot more active, but is it also better and does it make more sense? I mean can you simply TBC yourself out of combat, spam wing-a-rangs, or run away with a cricket within 2 seconds, or use other consumeables such as watches etc?

How is the crafting, is it more complex? How is the trade-off in terms of items to craft, base-building, food recipes yada yada.

I generally do not know most of it, but I seriously do wonder in which aspects Salem is better than Haven and vice versa.


The PvE aspect is incredible. It’s a quality, progression, everything you do PvE wise is to better and refined, what ever you produce. You dig deeper for better metals, you plant trees to get better fuel for those metals, you develop better clays and pottery’s to make better trees and so on and so on. Everything you do is always putting you a step ahead, so there is a constant feeling that everything you do is for a purpose and not mindless grind. You can totally be a carebear and get enjoyment just seeing how high you can get your quality up. The inventory mechanic in Salem is better, as in you are limited by weight. Haven has slots similar to diablo games. Although in haven you don’t need stock bins, literally almost everything you can right click and make a Pile of what ever on the ground. That pile can be moved with a wheel Barrel and then placed next to construction sites. The building in Haven is much much more stream line and we’ll done. The quality of life is better. Instead of building wall segments one by one you can expand by multi tiles and tally’s up all the materials you need to finish all the segments. That is one example of many.

PvP is the most different thing than Salem. Salem is better in the sense that it’s player skill based. If a person in Salem is weaker than his opponent he can still win if he has better skill. HnH pvp boils down to three things, item quality>stats> Strategy. Which is why the game dies early. Although with the new update to rage and murder it has surprisingly gotten better. People are losing their main crafters less, so people still stick around even if their fighter dies as it is easyer to replace. So retention is still at a record high of 1500+ players. HnH dosnt have stocks, TBC, so in my opinion there are more people committing crimes, so more pvp. My group alone has already murdered a number of people, raided and stole. Factions is a much bigger deal, you can still pvp solo, but if you want to participate in a large scale battle you will need friends.

All In all the game IS DIFFERENT, but incredibly fun. If you like legacy Salem you will enjoy Haven as it holds the original vision jorn and loftar had for Salem.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Chrumps » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:01 pm

Judaism wrote:How is the crafting, is it more complex? How is the trade-off in terms of items to craft, base-building, food recipes yada yada.
I generally do not know most of it, but I seriously do wonder in which aspects Salem is better than Haven and vice versa.


Dallane wrote:oh man you just opened a big rabbit hole.
I encourage you to check all of that out and see how things work because you will actually feel extremely rewarded once you get into it.

This.

But going deeper into details:
Developers committed to providing one small patch once a week. These patches are really small, like 2-3 new items, a new shop hat and some minor bugfixes, up to the point "add new bird" has become a meme. But "slow and steady" does work and these small patches accumulate over time creating a very complex world with lots of items, most of which can be more or less useful and even at this point it is next to impossible to experience ALL mechanics because of complexity and redundancy.

In most cases items have substitutes so not having one particular thing may be a slow down but can be overcome in one or more ways. Sometimes, in edge cases, these substitutes are even better.

Player made cookbook can give idea about food system complexity: https://certainly-not-a-cat.github.io/cookbook/

A lot have been improved behind the scenes, for example the way resources are organized, some gobid exploits that are possible in Salem (but have not surfaced yet) are not possible in H&H because gobids are randomized (per map load I guess). On the contrary global map id (hash) is available and maps are created server side so it is possible to implement GPS using map ids (see amber/ardennes client). In short, Salem has A LOT to improve to catch up with current server code in terms of QoL.

The mining system is different, all mine levels are linked. Mine hole cost is increasing with level now.

There is no dev-managed central town. There are towns made by players serving as trade centers. Thus there is no space for mechanics like stocks, developer shops, bank, post office etc. These has been introduced in Salem by Paradox as a part of monetization scheme and never have been a thing in Haven.

Fast travel is different. It has been heavily nerfed this world. Again, there is no dev-made central town so no need to travel there. There is a player made road network slowly developing. It is usually possible to teleport back to homestead except under crime.
There is no leanto teleportation of items.

There were made changes to pvp this world. In a way there is no permadeath, at least that's what some people cry. On the contrary it is entirely possible to die from drowning, wounds, and killing in combat is possible with relevant knowledge and skill. This world introduced a change so the chars with no Rage skill are much harder to kill but they cannot attack, except on own land. Basically a char is auto teleported (TBCed) from combat after KO but stuff can be stolen from it before it happens. Generally, YMMV disclaimer apply. There are leech related tricks which may or may not work depending on timing and on custom client settings.

There is a magic to make a horse rear so a mounted char cannot move for a longer while. That basically means mounted combat is avoided.
Due to some balancing it is now much harder to escape than it was in the previous world. Having an inventory full of water is still a thing.

Making clothes is a thing from very early stages of game. Slotting items seems nicer as you always can slot more stuff into any item, it is possible to open a slot on a closed item. It is just too expensive to be worth it in most cases.

Some server-side game automation has been added, for example it is possible to mark a field area to auto-harvest or auto-plant. Shaves a good bit of tedium from the game.

There is a lot of complexity related to q grind which has been mostly removed from Salem early Providence.

There is still a lot of similarities, even keyboard shortcuts are the same in custom clients except ardennes one, which allows for redefining anyway. A lot of user interface is the same in it's core as crafting window, inventories etc. Early game, say first hour, is still almost identical, that is get a branch, make an axe, make fire, gather cones/fruits/shrooms etc. Core claim mechanics is still the same, though details differ.

Way better than Salem at this point IMO though missing the mystery aura. It is different setting, based on Germanic and Slavic myths, rather than on North American ones, more about nature magic than dark magic.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Dallane » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:45 pm

One thing that others touched on but I'll stress it a bit more is the community. You have a big mix of PVE and PVP people living and working together. People go full on town building to make amazing looking cities and develop trade centers. Check out screen shots of the northern kingdom. Those dudes made a amazing place. People here **** talk the hnh graphics but I don't think they have looked at them past the wilderness.

Trading in general has always been amazing for me. When people make trade centers you get to meet and spar with the big boys. All of the big factions know each other and have played with each other at some point it seems. You don't see a ton of crazy backstabbing like you do in this game. Your reputation actually means something in the hearthlands.

I see it now and then but not often in that you don't have people clearing everyone off the map cause it's their land. From what I remember you get benefits for having people work the land around your kingdom.

I like the combat here better minus the stupid ****. The basic hit and movement is way more enjoyable to me until you add in watches, lassos and baterrangs. The combat system is a big difference but once you get the hang of it then it's really fun and rewarding. It's like a rock papper scissor card game with movement and teamwork.
Please click this link for a better salem forum experience

TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby toddesloan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:03 pm

Dallane wrote:One thing that others touched on but I'll stress it a bit more is the community. You have a big mix of PVE and PVP people living and working together. People go full on town building to make amazing looking cities and develop trade centers. Check out screen shots of the northern kingdom. Those dudes made a amazing place. People here **** talk the hnh graphics but I don't think they have looked at them past the wilderness.

Trading in general has always been amazing for me. When people make trade centers you get to meet and spar with the big boys. All of the big factions know each other and have played with each other at some point it seems. You don't see a ton of crazy backstabbing like you do in this game. Your reputation actually means something in the hearthlands.

I see it now and then but not often in that you don't have people clearing everyone off the map cause it's their land. From what I remember you get benefits for having people work the land around your kingdom.

I like the combat here better minus the stupid ****. The basic hit and movement is way more enjoyable to me until you add in watches, lassos and baterrangs. The combat system is a big difference but once you get the hang of it then it's really fun and rewarding. It's like a rock papper scissor card game with movement and teamwork.


+1
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Judaism » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:49 pm

Marp wrote:
Providence is intended to represent a PVE focus, and I called it the comparative "PVE server" or experience, hence the difficulty in raiding on Providence compared to expeditions thus far. It was the complaint that Providence is "too hard" to raid on that I was answering to with this position. Many of the raiding mechanics of Providence reflect this focus (albeit imperfectly). Most all aspects of Salem and its design have and will continue to include PVP elements. - Marp


Pretty simular what most games have done and are trying to do, the recent fuss in Fortnite is going thru this exact cycle again.
Image


That said, new expedition please!
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