New expedition - Just launch it

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New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Nikixos » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:07 pm

No need new content, it helps to add variety and revive the game, it's fun for the battle arena etc. Just don't abandon the promise of two expeditions per year :roll:
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:09 pm

Nikixos wrote:No need new content, it helps to add variety and revive the game, it's fun for the battle arena etc. Just don't abandon the promise of two expeditions per year :roll:

xD
You are right. We should have a new expo with 0 new content.
Easy money for JC. Providence market is saturated with shop items so that's another way to boost up sales.
Autist would probably buy a mega ***** of those again.
Excellent suggestion tbh, let's reward a lazy dev.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Chrumps » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Nagged Marp about that more than once. Not going to happen until JC has spare time.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Judaism » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:35 pm

Okay basically I still hold my opinion dated from 2014, which is that expeditions in itself are flawed and means that the developers are unable to balance the game properly. They instead should aim towards balancing that even if it includes a new wipe of Providence. But if they are persistent in letting this game die (an expedition will not fix the core flaws of the game) then it should most certainly not be focused on any profit and entirely on the people's satisfaction.

Some of the following issues I had with the previous one:

The store simply should be removed regardless of any expedition at this point, it is absolutely ridiculous how much influence it has especially early game. But a new expedition could work, with simply different win conditions, the statue crap is not a really fun one in its current state. Other RNG crap also should be removed, most certainly not be included in the win conditions.

Could be done easily, without adding many new mechanics. The cannons still should be removed and instead raiding should be changed furthermore. Soak values need to be down and other time-gated crap also out, then it does not matter if the win conditions are super hard (as long its a fun thing to experiences rather than mostly a boring grind).

Last expedition we had ''easier raiding conditions'' which consisted out lower brazier damage but still no change in damage per tick on the walls, or the soak damage so you would still end up relying upon your cannons which still is a flawed system in my opinion. Lets not forget that you still needed TBF's, which also need to be out. A 24 hour warning on an expedition is also really not on its place.

Make everything faster paste, instead of slowing down progess and making it dependant upon some craving or other time related things. Then the expedition will be a battleground, instead of it mainly consisting out of searching for the statues, searching for animals and grinding a super high skilled witch.

Those are some things to make it a much more enjoyable situation, so that competitive factions will not simply aim for the win conditions (yes you could prevent this furthermore with time gating even more things, but it would render early-game irrelevant and you would have a similar situation to the first expedition where the first 1 and half year did not influence the expedition in a significant way and people would be bored within a few months and quit.)
JohnCarver wrote:Mortal Moments Inc. is not here to cannibalize the community or piece out the code. We are not here because we wish to institute pay to win models or PvE servers. Quite the contrary.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Heffernan » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:11 pm

Judaism wrote:Okay basically I still hold my opinion dated from 2014, which is that expeditions in itself are flawed and means that the developers are unable to balance the game properly. They instead should aim towards balancing that even if it includes a new wipe of Providence. But if they are persistent in letting this game die (an expedition will not fix the core flaws of the game) then it should most certainly not be focused on any profit and entirely on the people's satisfaction.

Some of the following issues I had with the previous one:

The store simply should be removed regardless of any expedition at this point, it is absolutely ridiculous how much influence it has especially early game. But a new expedition could work, with simply different win conditions, the statue crap is not a really fun one in its current state. Other RNG crap also should be removed, most certainly not be included in the win conditions.

Could be done easily, without adding many new mechanics. The cannons still should be removed and instead raiding should be changed furthermore. Soak values need to be down and other time-gated crap also out, then it does not matter if the win conditions are super hard (as long its a fun thing to experiences rather than mostly a boring grind).

Last expedition we had ''easier raiding conditions'' which consisted out lower brazier damage but still no change in damage per tick on the walls, or the soak damage so you would still end up relying upon your cannons which still is a flawed system in my opinion. Lets not forget that you still needed TBF's, which also need to be out. A 24 hour warning on an expedition is also really not on its place.

Make everything faster paste, instead of slowing down progess and making it dependant upon some craving or other time related things. Then the expedition will be a battleground, instead of it mainly consisting out of searching for the statues, searching for animals and grinding a super high skilled witch.

Those are some things to make it a much more enjoyable situation, so that competitive factions will not simply aim for the win conditions (yes you could prevent this furthermore with time gating even more things, but it would render early-game irrelevant and you would have a similar situation to the first expedition where the first 1 and half year did not influence the expedition in a significant way and people would be bored within a few months and quit.)


a few days ago Marp said on Discord that Salem is solely designed as PvE Game and the Expeditions are for the PvP part, he wasnt even joking.

User banned for one week for misrepresentation of development. For clarity, I never said that Salem is solely designed as a PVE game. Providence is intended to represent a PVE focus, and I called it the comparative "PVE server" or experience, hence the difficulty in raiding on Providence compared to expeditions thus far. It was the complaint that Providence is "too hard" to raid on that I was answering to with this position. Many of the raiding mechanics of Providence reflect this focus (albeit imperfectly). Most all aspects of Salem and its design have and will continue to include PVP elements. - Marp
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Rifmaster » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:16 pm

Salem is a PvE game. Just ask MM about it.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Judaism » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:36 pm

Heffernan wrote:a few days ago Marp said on Discord that Salem is solely designed as PvE Game and the Expeditions are for the PvP part, he wasnt even joking.


Just because they state that, does not derive Salem from its original intentions. They personally might have slowly headed into that direction and PvE always was a crucial aspect of the game. That said, if you buy a shoe and try to make it into a sandal, it still is a shoe. They are not the original developers, they simply added some mechanics and items. Otherwise they simply would had created their own engine and put the serious time/effort and resources into it, they did not.

Its exactly what I stated, they were unable to balance the game (IMO they have not tried hard enough) and opted for the easy way out and its precisely why they have not been successful with implementing strong mechanics. Nearly all of them are very flawed and they are not willing to adapt and learn from their mistakes (they are too perfect to make mistakes, not a single massive mechanic has been actually changed).

Instead they both simply abandon the ship when they realize that the decisions they made many years ago were horrible and that redeveloping requires double the effort (also undermining most of their previous mechanics) and is at this point also most likely far too late. Therefore its easy for them to state that this game is a PvE game, they did not bought a PvE game on the contrary and even in the current Providence its not the end-game.

At this point its neither a PvE game, nor a PvP game in either Providence or any expedition and unlike the previous developers they are neither willing to spread the seed to someone else with perhaps more determination, knowledge and skill to develop this once amazing and unique game.

Since I basically have the first post from JC, with his in my description for years now. We can clearly see their original intention:

JohnCarver wrote:Mortal Moments Inc. is not here to cannibalize the community or piece out the code. We are not here because we wish to institute pay to win models or PvE servers. Quite the contrary.


http://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9769&p=130432&hilit=Mortal+Moments+Inc.+is+here+to+cannibalize+the+community#p130432
JohnCarver wrote:Mortal Moments Inc. is not here to cannibalize the community or piece out the code. We are not here because we wish to institute pay to win models or PvE servers. Quite the contrary.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Taipion » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:51 pm

Oh, it's judawalloftext time of the year again already...?
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby Judaism » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:04 pm

Taipion wrote:Oh, it's judawalloftext time of the year again already...?


Yes I will always bring it up, its crucial for everyone to know realize.
As for the original developers on Heaven & Hearth:

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Thats significant more on a day than Salem has on a month (including the alt accounts).

The point being is that, Salem currently does not even have the resources nor the will for this to be a lasting game.
Last edited by Judaism on Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
JohnCarver wrote:Mortal Moments Inc. is not here to cannibalize the community or piece out the code. We are not here because we wish to institute pay to win models or PvE servers. Quite the contrary.
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Re: New expedition - Just launch it

Postby MaxPlanck » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:18 pm

Judaism wrote:Image

Thats significant more on a day than Salem has on a month (including the alt accounts).



To be fair, those numbers are that high right now cause the world has reset in the past few weeks and everyone wants that new grind hype. It will drop back down to 200 players on avg. on during the day in a couple months.
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