WOW, that was quick

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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby kabuto202 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:11 am

TotalyMeow wrote:Again, the numbers shown on the status page are the number of accounts logging in. In any given day, more than 80% of those logins are unique IPs according to server records.

Is it accounts logging into the game, or accounts logging into the forums to **** post in the forums or to check if a single promise made almost half a year ago was delivered on?
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby Dallane » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:12 am

kabuto202 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:Again, the numbers shown on the status page are the number of accounts logging in. In any given day, more than 80% of those logins are unique IPs according to server records.

Is it accounts logging into the game, or accounts logging into the forums to **** post in the forums or to check if a single promise made almost half a year ago was delivered on?


A master game dev such as yourself should know it counts people going into game.
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:17 am

kabuto202 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:Again, the numbers shown on the status page are the number of accounts logging in. In any given day, more than 80% of those logins are unique IPs according to server records.

Is it accounts logging into the game, or accounts logging into the forums to **** post in the forums or to check if a single promise made almost half a year ago was delivered on?


Obviously it's counting the server logins. That's why it's called 'server status' and lists the existing servers separately. I know it's frustrating that Salem isn't updating lately but when you have the opportunity to massively increase your business, you don't say "sorry, that would cut into my gaming time".
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby kabuto202 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:37 am

TotalyMeow wrote:Obviously it's counting the server logins. That's why it's called 'server status' and lists the existing servers separately.

Because webservers are not a thing that exists, and the information isn't displayed on a per server basis making your second point moot. Snark won't change the fact that the page was clearly made with little to no thought put into its layout.

TotalyMeow wrote: I know it's frustrating that Salem isn't updating lately but when you have the opportunity to massively increase your business, you don't say "sorry, that would cut into my gaming time".

What are you talking about? Are you saying that JC's real job is taking up the time commitment that he was supposed to work on Salem with? Somehow I feel like basic communication and better scope management are not mutually exclusive to focusing on your business. But regardless, it doesn't take someone who sold a start-up to know that when you grow a business your time commitment doesn't decrease.
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:43 am

kabuto202 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:Obviously it's counting the server logins. That's why it's called 'server status' and lists the existing servers separately.

Because webservers are not a thing that exists, and the information isn't displayed on a per server basis making your second point moot. Snark won't change the fact that the page was clearly made with little to no thought put into its layout.


Well, I'll be sure to give Jorb your opinion next time I see him. :roll: You clearly understood that the count was for server logins when you posted and were just trying to be troublesome.

kabuto202 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote: I know it's frustrating that Salem isn't updating lately but when you have the opportunity to massively increase your business, you don't say "sorry, that would cut into my gaming time".

What are you talking about? Are you saying that JC's real job is taking up the time commitment that he was supposed to work on Salem with? Somehow I feel like basic communication and better scope management are not mutually exclusive to focusing on your business. But regardless, it doesn't take someone who sold a start-up to know that when you grow a business your time commitment doesn't decrease.


I'm not sure what your point is here. That after his workload went from about 4 hours a day to over 12, he should still make 4 hours a day to work on Salem? That you once sold a business and somehow that makes you familiar with every business situation that can exist? Or that you're just completely clueless and want to ***** about things you know nothing about?
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby kabuto202 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:19 am

TotalyMeow wrote:Well, I'll be sure to give Jorb your opinion next time I see him. :roll: You clearly understood that the count was for server logins when you posted and were just trying to be troublesome.


Right, I forgot that when management changes you're automatically absolved of all responsibility for anything the old management did regardless of whether or not you continue using it's code or the fact that you had ample opportunity to change it. Listen I get that you're a (probably) unpaid community manager for a game with a playerbase who's favorite past time is to **** post on the forums while for something resembling a content update. But, for a moment have you considered that rather being defensive and projecting your angst with the community, that the information may actually be unclear? Especially since given that our forum accounts are the same as our in-game account?

TotalyMeow wrote:I'm not sure what your point is here. That after his workload went from about 4 hours a day to over 12, he should still make 4 hours a day to work on Salem? That you once sold a business and somehow that makes you familiar with every business situation that can exist? Or that you're just completely clueless and want to ***** about things you know nothing about?


Two points. First, much of the community's pissyness about all of this could have been avoided by making a stickied announcement thread saying something along the lines of: "Hey guys, listen. As you know I do this for mostly (entirely) free and I run a business as my primary source of income. A series of events which I cannot disclose for legal reasons are likely going to draw my attention from development for the next X period, possibly longer. As such it's unlikely we will be able to deliver on the roadmap as expected. I will keep you updated as the situation develops." A bit of communication goes a pretty long way it turns out. Second of all, literally no one in the roadmap thread actually believed that the given roadmap would be delivered, even if JC didn't have anything come up. The fact that such an ambitious roadmap was given shows a distinct lack of self-awareness.

I want to make a correction: I didn't sell a company, I was simply there at ground zero and now receive mentorship from from the founders for my own company. I also freely admit that I am not familiar with every business situation that exist. However, unless you're horribly misusing the term growth there are very few possible scenarios where your workload decreases (especially for a software company which I may be entirely wrong in assuming is what JC runs for his day job). Sure you might get some downtime after a major release or whatever, but that down time won't last long; however, if you're truly growing as a company more customers, more employees, and more market visibility does not spell less work.
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:52 am

kabuto202 wrote:Right, I forgot that when management changes you're automatically absolved of all responsibility for anything the old management did regardless of whether or not you continue using it's code or the fact that you had ample opportunity to change it.


Actually, no. There are so many things that need to be changed in Salem, that we have to order by priority and changing that page just isn't high on the list. I think you might be the first to think it referred to forum logins.

kabuto202 wrote:much of the community's pissyness about all of this could have been avoided by making a stickied announcement thread...


Maybe, but not my decision. You'll have to PM John.

kabuto202 wrote:I want to make a correction: I didn't sell a company, I was simply there at ground zero and now receive mentorship from from the founders for my own company. I also freely admit that I am not familiar with every business situation that exist. However, unless you're horribly misusing the term growth there are very few possible scenarios where your workload decreases (especially for a software company which I may be entirely wrong in assuming is what JC runs for his day job). Sure you might get some downtime after a major release or whatever, but that down time won't last long; however, if you're truly growing as a company more customers, more employees, and more market visibility does not spell less work.


So, your argument is that he should have not expanded when he had the chance because it would obviously mean less time for Salem for a long time? I really don't think that's the best business model. Our hope is that at some point he'll be able to delegate the extra work back out again and Salem will return to a more frequent update schedule. Or any updates at all, really. :( Now, if you're done taking your frustrations out on me, I'm going to bed.
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby kabuto202 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:48 am

TotalyMeow wrote:Actually, no. There are so many things that need to be changed in Salem, that we have to order by priority and changing that page just isn't high on the list. I think you might be the first to think it referred to forum logins.

Please don't give me that. You're pushing a templated page from your server that remains static. It would take an insane amount of talent to bungle up code like that so that it's anything but a low-hanging fruit that would take 15 minutes tops to change and test. At worst you should just have to adjust whatever DB query you're making. So could you please explain to me why this wouldn't be the case?

TotalyMeow wrote:Maybe, but not my decision. You'll have to PM John.

Which I would if I were his collaborator that interacts with the community daily and can clearly tell that people are unhappy about the radio silence.

TotalyMeow wrote:So, your argument is that he should have not expanded when he had the chance because it would obviously mean less time for Salem for a long time? I really don't think that's the best business model. Our hope is that at some point he'll be able to delegate the extra work back out again and Salem will return to a more frequent update schedule.


Actually my argument here is that if he open sourced the project to a community that has not a small amount of talented programmers (given the custom clients) actual feature development would occur, and code maintenance would likely be a lot less of a *****. It's basically what almost every software developer with a day-job that wants to have a side project does. Or even looked for someone else who would be willing to step in and help out. Which is a good segway to: the idea that delegating your work will reduce your workload is kind of a trap. I doubt you want me to get into long nitty gritty of it, but in short: delegation has diminishing returns in terms of time returned to you that hits it's cap very quickly, and there are some aspects of running a business that you shouldn't delegate & they increase in prominence the larger your company grows. Strong growth ultimately promotes, more growth so I seriously doubt that if things go well for JC that he will have extra time in the nearby future.

TotalyMeow wrote:Now, if you're done taking your frustrations out on me, I'm going to bed.

Again with the projecting. It was your choice to open this can of worms, I just wanted to clarification on the numbers I was looking at (although I'll give you that it was asked in the salty ***** tone that is default on this forum).
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby Dallane » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:40 am

kabuto202 wrote:Actually my argument here is that if he open sourced the project to a community that has not a small amount of talented programmers (given the custom clients) actual feature development would occur, and code maintenance would likely be a lot less of a *****. It's basically what almost every software developer with a day-job that wants to have a side project does. Or even looked for someone else who would be willing to step in and help out. Which is a good segway to: the idea that delegating your work will reduce your workload is kind of a trap. I doubt you want me to get into long nitty gritty of it, but in short: delegation has diminishing returns in terms of time returned to you that hits it's cap very quickly, and there are some aspects of running a business that you shouldn't delegate & they increase in prominence the larger your company grows. Strong growth ultimately promotes, more growth so I seriously doubt that if things go well for JC that he will have extra time in the nearby future.


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gasp for breath

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Confirmed clay levels of retardation
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Re: WOW, that was quick

Postby Heffernan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:50 am

funny how he thinks relesing the source would not lead to mass level of exploitation ingame.
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