Murder: Location known.

[vienradzis]

Nope. If he was murdering people in real life, I'd agree with you, he should feel bad. But this is a game, a game with allows for recreational murder and thievery and the enjoyment thereof. YOU are the one who should feel bad here. You come in here saying that Mikus is wrong and cowardly and blah bah blah blah blah, and then you claim you're 'too good' to oppose him. That's *****. You want him to stop having fun killing everyone he comes across? Make a great big combat character, walk off claim, and kill him your own self.

Welp it looks like we have a huge disagreement about what Salem is. Of course that RL it's bad and the game is not the same, I'm not even willing to discuss that, as obvious as it is. I agree that Salem is a game with allows for recreational murder etc aswell. Because welp, that's in its description.
But, again, being allowed to wrong people (because that is what it is, losing a character and your lovely buildings hurts, even if you were prepared for that) doesn't mean it isn't wrong anymore.

Salem is... a sandbox right. Let's compare it with a RL sandbox then. I loved building sand castles with my father when I was a child, and once it was built, the idea was that the first to destroy the other's castle would win. We could have, aswell, decided to destroy the other children's castles; we wouldn't have hurted them in any physical way, but they were not necessarly here to see unknown people come and trample on their [fragile, useless and inconsistent] buildings. Although that's obviously something that can happen when you go to the beach because some children are so mean. Plus the castle will die on the shore anyway. Yet while you're having fun with it's not really cool.
You could tell me that it's not the same and that the real comparision would be if it was a sand castle contest with the right to destroy your opponent's castles. I could agree with that. Those whining about the others using their right should hear "what the heck did you expect !?" yet it still doesn't mean that it's the good thing to do. The smartest and probably funniest thing to do, but still very wrong.
Entering the contest obviously means that you are fair play and ready to get your things destroyed. Would you really enjoy seeing it happening is another question and I really doubt the answer is yes for a majority of people; even if some dude offered you protection as long as you do what he tells you to do without arguing against what he himself does.

Now one more point : I like Mikus, discussing with him is always cool etc. My character doesn't. That's roleplay.
And this is Salem in my point of view. You play a colonist that wants to settle on the new world for reasons. The law is nothing but a very far island on the other side of the ocean, and it's up to you to make your own path on Providence. Everything is permitted. And there begins roleplay.


I do not and will never believe that murdering people is good, even if those people are evil. A life is a life. Everyone should be permitted to repent and use their lives to do great things. Ending a life, is ending the possibility to see those great things happening. You could argue that it's up to their heirs to make it happen, but it is just ridiculous. Murdering someone is nothing but a loss; of all the time that has been spent by this person in making projects, starting them, acquiring knowledge; a loss of that knowledge that could have been shared. A loss of an elder that would have a lot of stories to tell to the new comers. It's nothing, but a waste. Only gods should have the right to chose who lives and who doesn't.

I'm far from being too good to oppose Mikus either. I'm just fighting against the will to do so physically. I dream enough about the day I'll get my sword in Darwoth's, Mikus's or other evildoers' chest. But that would just be meaningless. Using fire to fight fire has never been my way to do things and I really hope it will always be like that.

Do not understand me wrong by the way, I am not saying that Mikus is a coward. I am saying that I would be a coward if I was engaging someone to do the dirty job for me while pretending to keep my hands white.

Since I do not really have any other choice for now, only thing I can do is to try to convince him to stop being evil, while he'll try to convince me how good it is to be evil. I suspect he'll convince me the first, but only the future will tell us.

Cheena you and your fellow pilgrims blindly dont accept and refuse to use biggest part of salem gameplay. You use only smart part of content what is offered and you try to force other to do same way. And you push your propoganda to newbies. So game is becoming ****. And this carebear noob crying are influencing Jonnys development and its is sad!

[Cheena]

I'm not forcing anyone to do the same. I'm only trying to make people understand my point of view, and if they change then it's all good. If they don't, too bad. But I can't force anyone to go my way.

I'll just fight back when it'll stop leaving scents and that I can lock you in a jail after koing you.

[vienradzis]

I'm not forcing anyone to do the same. I'm only trying to make people understand my point of view, and if they change then it's all good. If they don't, too bad. But I can't force anyone to go my way.

I'll just fight back when it'll stop leaving scents and that I can lock you in a jail after koing you.

You can do it now. There are plenty of tools what allow you to do that. You just like most of our community fail to make big goals and stick to them. Its sign of weakness.

[Cheena]

I cannot KO you without leaving criminal scents, even if you attack me first. Even if I could, let's say, ko you with turkeys or **** like that, I cannot drag your ko'd body to a jail. Actually I could do nothing to you except steal your stuff or kill you definitively. I suppose I could attack your homestead, become mayor by some magical way, put a new bell, then lock your leanto, then... wait for your friends to come and save your ass, all of that while attacking you somewhere else... gah really ?

If I wanted to do it my way, I'd have to trick and trap you and that would mean that you've been stupid enough to follow me in jail by your own. Are you that stupid ? I definitly doubt so.

[Darwoth]

cheena is french, it is in her DNA to just throw up the white flag and surrender.

[alprice]

I am confused Mikus, how is killing the biggest part of this game. JC is out there adding more content to the game. The game is better than ever with the exception of killers who kill for sport. Tribe isn't the only one that does this but they get the most heat for it. I can't be mad at them for their well thought out tactical ways. I some times wonder what the game would be like if they weren't here. Then I think it could be worse, Darwoth could be the One Ring to rule them all.

[Darwoth]

lol what do you mean by that? on jamestown everyone was pretty happy with me being the server's overlord the political scene remained neutral and i seldom intervened in skirmishes between folks unless they did something to drag me into it.

dunno why folks act like i am some kind of server burning psychopath just because i pk and raid occasionally

[oubliette]

I'm not going to read all these posts, as it's become philosophical debate but, the game, is clearly an experimental thing. It's a macrocosm of colonial life.

Cheena is right. Killing others is NOT the end-all of the game. The game is all the things of colonial life which can include mentally deficient murderous types. But it can also include justice and hangings and beheading and farming and grouping together in towns with laws. It's all of those things, not just a playground for spiteful little twits who try to feel a sense of control in their world by killing the helpless in a video game to bolster their spun-glass psyches.

I'm not upset about the loss of the character I'd literally made twenty minutes before encountering the Mikus. Rather I was incensed that his sort was so easy to encounter an as I said, perhaps I was just unlucky and ran into him at the wrong time. Since then I've encountered others with some backbone and a sense of moralistic integrity, so all is not lost.

I do feel that there needs to some better options for players to mark killers like Mikus, he's not that original and he's nothing special, so we'll see more of his sort. We should have a game-way to not only mark him as a killer but make it obvious to all and quite possibly, have them unable to enter town without NPC and player awareness coming into play. Until then, if that day arrives, I posted here because all on the server should be aware. Perhaps I have an over inflated sense of justice but, I believe, that the game is a really beautiful thing and can be better.

The statements made by some in this thread, to the effect of "This is just the way it is, nothing can be changed" may have missed the point of the entire concept of the pilgrims the game is based on. Things can change, things can be better than this. I hope that others will see this and step up.

[vienradzis]

I cannot KO you without leaving criminal scents, even if you attack me first. Even if I could, let's say, ko you with turkeys or **** like that, I cannot drag your ko'd body to a jail. Actually I could do nothing to you except steal your stuff or kill you definitively. I suppose I could attack your homestead, become mayor by some magical way, put a new bell, then lock your leanto, then... wait for your friends to come and save your ass, all of that while attacking you somewhere else... gah really ?

If I wanted to do it my way, I'd have to trick and trap you and that would mean that you've been stupid enough to follow me in jail by your own. Are you that stupid ? I definitly doubt so.

Why you cannot accepts that game setting what salem offer isnt for you? Why you cannot go and play game what suites you? Why you force feed us whit your ****? Game needs to be changed just its fits your ideals?

If you like farming stuff try molehill empire.

if you like fishing try propilkki 2.

if you like to hunt for some random drops try D3.

there are plenty other game you can try what maybe suites you better.

Or just accept that you are bad and cannot use tools what salem offer to you and stop crying here how bad it is.

[vienradzis]

I am confused Mikus, how is killing the biggest part of this game. JC is out there adding more content to the game. The game is better than ever with the exception of killers who kill for sport. Tribe isn't the only one that does this but they get the most heat for it. I can't be mad at them for their well thought out tactical ways. I some times wonder what the game would be like if they weren't here. Then I think it could be worse, Darwoth could be the One Ring to rule them all.

killing isnt biggest part of game its just one of tools game offer to you.