It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Darwoth » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:22 am

Judaism wrote:
Darwoth wrote:then it still would not matter, because i would just siege from one of the other 27 townbells i currently have control of (if your a newb and want a town with basic walls/stuff for the cost of just the deed let me know)


Ofcourse I thought about that, however at a rate it would be a much greater effort, you would have to make several town claims and protect the wastes, remake them etc.

At a certain point, I feel anyone has the right to "permanent" TBF, however at the current rate its just too easy. A brick wall, couple braziers and just one town and 99% won't even try. Multiplying that with three to keep a 6/7 days siege up is alot different already.



and then the exact people crying about the island would in turn be even MORE soaked in their snotty tears because of how "unfair" it is that "darwoth can just be immune after he beats a siege but xxx town isnt because he can just siege form a different town, this is because he has unlimited billions of silver through a legitimate game system i know nothing about not the fact that every major town he raids (and there have been over 30 in the last 5 months) has an average of 50k silver (arcadia had around 140k in silver AFTER subtracting the 35k+ i spent on pclaims)

so the situation would in turn only work out better for me and other veteran raiders and in fact be far more difficult to retaliate.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Judaism » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:31 am

TotalyMeow wrote:Most of raiding's labyrinthine complexity now is due to trying to make the non raiders happy.

Not to discourage ideas. I would welcome a good one. Cracking this chestnut isn't going to be easy though.


Don't get me wrong, I like it alot that raiders don't have to actively defend whilst raiding, that would make raiding even more ridiculous. I am not perse a fan of the whole TBF concept, I would rather see it gets removed with no warnings at all, rather than B/S reasons to keep it implemented.

Right now its functioning as a crappy barrier, with many ways to work around.

I don't care about the actuall raiding in the case of a TBF, I only fight against the fact that you can ruin a town, without doing anything more than donuting a proper waste and 960/s a day, you could hit any town, with any population and make their playtime alot more foolish. Like how you guys implemented it so that you cannot teleport in a shade of a waste and yet there are several legit ways to get out of it regardless of a shade, like I said: I do not like inconsistency with the many (******) exceptions.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Dallane » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:35 am

I think we should add cannons and remove waste. It's clear that cannons haven't been a mind blowing rekting ball that we once thought.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby TotalyMeow » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:40 am

Dallane wrote:It's clear that cannons haven't been a mind blowing rekting ball that we once thought.


Only through lack of trying.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Darwoth » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:52 am

what you consider "****** exceptions" i consider creative use of tactics, thankfully for salem john seems to largely agree with that premise. there are dozens upon dozens of obscure things and strategies that can be employed in this game, which is why i play it. if salem was simply a dumbed down "gleeerp lets go break wall" game that you seem to want it to be with your suggestions and general dissatisfaction it would be a pile of **** like every other modern mmo with no depth and nothing to discover.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Claeyt » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:17 am

TotalyMeow wrote:You always say you'll change what you say, but no matter how many times or in how much detail I or anyone explains something, you never do. In fact, you tend to get worse because you seem to think that you're getting extra attention so you must be right. No, this is just part of my job, to explain.

I think it's been pretty clear, but maybe you just don't understand? We don't care if a waste claim is 'unprotected' because we don't particularly want them to be protected. We don't particularly want them to be unprotected. It's fine either way, though personally I'd prefer to remove waste claims altogether and was disappointed when that wasn't one of the first things we did. We left them in because so many people would have complained if they no longer had the warning and they still will. Now, if we get a landslide of people saying they prefer the removal of waste claims after all, maybe it will be done. Or if someone comes up with a WORKABLE alternative mechanic maybe that can be done; for now this is at least a devil we know.

To remove them completely would require 2 things: Walls would need to take much longer to destroy for enemies of the town and Townbells would need to be indestructable again. I wouldn't mind that so much.

The bigger problem are the protected, walled in TbC's and TbF's.

What about this as an idea:

What if any member of a town under a TbF or TbC could freely commit waste outside of their town but under the acting TbF or TbC without leaving a scent. We need to see more action against walled in TbF's and TbC's. What's stopping people isn't that they can't break into the Donuted TbF's and TbC's, it's that they don't want to leave summonable scents for the raiders to summon them with.

I think most people wouldn't mind seeing more action in raiding, but with less risk involved.

TotalyMeow wrote:
Claeyt wrote:They didn't even know they could break Townbells until a few weeks before they were raided.


Town bells less than a week old can be broken without a waste claim. This was in the patch notes. An active town would have been on that like a chicken on a beetle.

They would still have had to commit summonable waste to do that though. If they had done that the higher end character would dead now also. Darwoth has the means to just rebuild these town bells over and over because of the broken stall tax system. Of course they could have risked a higher end character to break in and taken it out but why should they have to do that just to maybe protect their town? Why do the defenders have to risk attacking a town just to defend their own town?

TotalyMeow wrote:
Claeyt wrote:What is unfair/broken is that they completely lost the town after 14 hours of not being able to be there. By all means, let raiders loot, raid, kill and do whatever but let the towns rebuild and keep growing.


Why? If they can't, in the course of months and weeks, be bothered to do anything to try to help themselves and their town; if they know the time frame when Darwoth is attacking and do nothing, why do they deserve this? There are two types of player in this game: Hunters and Prey. That is how it is, how it is meant to be, and how we intend to keep it. Prey will come and go, some of them will even stay for a long time and that's good. Hunters need prey, but we will only pander to their safety so much. In the end, Salem is all about the raiding. You don't have to attack others, but you'd better by prepared to defend yourself with combat, risk, and possibly the commission of crimes at the very least.

This is an extremely simplistic way of thinking about this game and shows how shallow your idea of the game is just as much as when you played the game.

I'll tell you the same thing that I told the Chief when he said something similar. Salem players all play the game differently. The Chief's and your ideas about how to play the game aren't the only ways to play the game even if you bought the game. Very, very few people actually raid much and most of us just want to build and plant and explore. Why is it so hard to let more than just your small idea about how to play the game exist?
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As the river rolled over the cliffs, my own laughing joy was drowned out by the roaring deluge of the water. The great cataract of Darwoth's Tears fell over and over endlessly.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Darwoth » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:22 am

Claeyt wrote:
What if any member of a town under a TbF or TbC could freely commit waste outside of their town but under the acting TbF or TbC without leaving a scent. We need to see more action against walled in TbF's and TbC's. What's stopping people isn't that they can't break into the Donuted TbF's and TbC's, it's that they don't want to leave summonable scents for the raiders to summon them with.



oh god it just never stops

great idea claeyt, does that mean that when i build a townbell outside of your town and siege it so i can burn your entire town down without leaving a scent you will shut the ***** up?
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Claeyt » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:28 am

Darwoth wrote:
Claeyt wrote:
What if any member of a town under a TbF or TbC could freely commit waste outside of their town but under the acting TbF or TbC without leaving a scent. We need to see more action against walled in TbF's and TbC's. What's stopping people isn't that they can't break into the Donuted TbF's and TbC's, it's that they don't want to leave summonable scents for the raiders to summon them with.



oh god it just never stops

great idea claeyt, does that mean that when i build a townbell outside of your town and siege it so i can burn your entire town down without leaving a scent you will shut the ***** up?

You'd only be able to not leave a scent if someone put a TbF against it and then only underneath the TbF.

Maybe it's as simple as not allowing TbF's or TbC's shadow's to touch more than one town.

There has to be a way to prevent people from building siege towns right next to other towns. Maybe we could just make it so you can't build another town within 10,000 tiles or something where it's far enough out that a town doesn't have to face a donuted TbF or TbC.
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As the river rolled over the cliffs, my own laughing joy was drowned out by the roaring deluge of the water. The great cataract of Darwoth's Tears fell over and over endlessly.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Darwoth » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:36 am

how big do you think a tbf shadow is jackass?

and yeah, you go ahead and "disallow" a TBF radius from touching multiple towns

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


edit: LOL yeah guys no towns can be within a supergrid+ of each other i am sure THAT wont have claeyt pissing himself with dismay even more.

and there is a way to prevent people from building towns next to yours, called breaking their town. if you dont like the game and its mechanics by all means kick rocks.
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Re: It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

Postby Claeyt » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:06 am

Darwoth wrote:how big do you think a tbf shadow is jackass?

and yeah, you go ahead and "disallow" a TBF radius from touching multiple towns

Why couldn't they? They disallow Pclaim and Vclaim overlap already.

Darwoth wrote:edit: LOL yeah guys no towns can be within a supergrid+ of each other i am sure THAT wont have claeyt pissing himself with dismay even more.

and there is a way to prevent people from building towns next to yours, called breaking their town. if you dont like the game and its mechanics by all means kick rocks.

"Breaking their towns" clearly isn't working. Why wouldn't a supergrid or maybe 5000 tiles or something smaller work? Why is it necessary or good for the game to have people building siege towns next to each other?
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