It's time to Nuke 'Dev Island'.

[Judaism]

...on that pic... is that thornbushes as wall substitutes?! I thought we were not allowed to uses bushes as walls?!

Who really cares about some bushes as wall, they barely have soak. But sure, report it and you might have a chance it gets nuked for the sake of consistency.

[Darwoth]

yes by all means you ***** morons feel free to "report" something that was never disallowed in the first place because you invented something in your imagination

once again for the ten thousandth time my island was reviewed several times, there is nothing about its design that was not signed off on. go ***** yourselves, i should just switch to the land based location so you crybabies have something to whine about and can waste 4 hours tracking through darkenbears vs a 2 minutes boat ride from the safety of providence.

[TotalyMeow]

they probably realized it's wrong.

Actually, it worked so well that no one has misbehaved lately to the point where they need a hat. It's too bad, hats are fun.

You're assuming they're on when he attacks. He had the Donut town next to Arcadia for 4 months.... 4 months AND he had the TbF on them for 2 weeks before he even attacked. When he did attack, according to Arcadia he broke through 3 brick walls under fire, and 2 plank walls under fire in under 14 hours. Nobody can defend 24/7 for 2 weeks Tmeow. You lost one of the most active group of players this game ever had because of ****** mechanics. The only reason Darwoth can do stuff like this is because he has unlimited money from the stall tax.

So... this town was one of the most active groups of players in the game ever? And yet they can't muster a character or two to break down a rival town that was sitting next to them for months? They can't muster the courage and resources to destroy a TbF that sat there for 2 weeks?? Clearly, Darwoth was aware that he was taking a very big risk and so relied on their potential laziness and/or fear to lull them into not paying attention to his actions. That is a definite failure of the people and nothing to do with mechanics. And you say he took a whole 14 HOURS to break into the town? And in all this time, in this supposedly active town, no one was there? They didn't have to defend 24/7. If it was an active town in any sense of the word, someone would have logged in at some point during that 14 hours and if the group had any clue they would have exchanged contact info in some form or other. They had 2 weeks to work that out if it didn't occur to them sooner. Surely they could have mustered 2 people to be there when he was breaking through those last couple walls to mount a more active defense. If they didn't, that is entirely a failing of people again, not mechanics. 14 hours to break in is more than generous enough for a defense. Or are you saying that its fair in any way that a raiding group should have to play constantly for more than 14 hours to raid a single town that no one is even bothering to defend? From the point of view of the raiders, mechanics NOW are MASSIVELY unfair and make raiding difficult for anyone who doesn't have a LOT of free time. And the stall tax system might make it easier for Darwoth to do what he does all alone, but I assure you that the money needed to raid like this is attainable for any small group.

in my opinion,

You rarely consider the implications of your opinions so they don't carry much weight any more.

is that when basic mechanics of the game are challenged the dev's and mods attack the player base questioning the problem. Why not defend why the mechanic (in this case Dev Island and it's affect on the game) is good or necessary for the game or the competition within the game instead of acting like jackasses.

No one is attacking the player base. People are calling you an idiot for harping on something that almost everyone else agrees is fine. There are a number of fortuitous islands on the map and some are quite difficult to break in to. But they are all possible, and if they aren't devs will intervene to make sure they are. Some may be more difficult than others (and Darwoth's island is NOT one of the more difficult ones), but they are all possible for a small, determined group. Maybe even a determined individual, depends on the skill level and stubbornness.

While islands might not be necessary, they do exist and it would be pretty ****** of us to destroy all of them now. Not to mention massively difficult and risky to the server stability. We left that stupid little map segment up in the NW just because a couple towns were up there already. We don't want it there making the map not square, making us code an exception into the map mechanic, but we left it because making those people move would have been an ass thing to do and we do try to be nice when we can. Same goes for the islands.

...on that pic... is that thornbushes as wall substitutes?! I thought we were not allowed to uses bushes as walls?!

You're not allowed to use high-soak high-hp buildings as walls. Bushes are actually okay, and thorn bushes were meant to be used as walls when we decided to make them plantable. They're almost entirely useless as such, of course, but we thought it would be amusing if you had the option.

[Dallane]

The sheer amount of REKT is off the chart

Todays gif reaction is brought to you by kia and his waifu.

[Thor]

Someone here needs a ban. Just sayin'. Permanent would be best.

[Claeyt]

The fact you are ignoring the other islands is proof enough you are a moron and only trying to ***** with darwoth to the point of being extremely petty after getting rekt by him again. Your "arguments" are proof enough that you don't understand basic crime mechanics.

People keep talking about the "other" islands but I've never seen one with this much protection from "protected" TbF's or TbC's. Again, it's not about the protections of the Dev Island town it's about the inability to build a protected TbF or TbC against it.

You always, always say I don't understand whichever mechanic but then you don't point out where I'm wrong. You do it constantly and it's idiotic. Simply point out where I'm wrong specifically and I'll change what I post.

they probably realized it's wrong.

Actually, it worked so well that no one has misbehaved lately to the point where they need a hat. It's too bad, hats are fun.

We both know that you guys have toned it down and made Dallane tone it down over the last year, and it's for the better in my opinion. Also the nice new rules on racism and other stuff on the forums are vastly improved since last year.

You're assuming they're on when he attacks. He had the Donut town next to Arcadia for 4 months.... 4 months AND he had the TbF on them for 2 weeks before he even attacked. When he did attack, according to Arcadia he broke through 3 brick walls under fire, and 2 plank walls under fire in under 14 hours. Nobody can defend 24/7 for 2 weeks Tmeow. You lost one of the most active group of players this game ever had because of ****** mechanics. The only reason Darwoth can do stuff like this is because he has unlimited money from the stall tax.

So... this town was one of the most active groups of players in the game ever? And yet they can't muster a character or two to break down a rival town that was sitting next to them for months? They can't muster the courage and resources to destroy a TbF that sat there for 2 weeks?? Clearly, Darwoth was aware that he was taking a very big risk and so relied on their potential laziness and/or fear to lull them into not paying attention to his actions. That is a definite failure of the people and nothing to do with mechanics. And you say he took a whole 14 HOURS to break into the town? And in all this time, in this supposedly active town, no one was there? They didn't have to defend 24/7. If it was an active town in any sense of the word, someone would have logged in at some point during that 14 hours and if the group had any clue they would have exchanged contact info in some form or other. They had 2 weeks to work that out if it didn't occur to them sooner. Surely they could have mustered 2 people to be there when he was breaking through those last couple walls to mount a more active defense. If they didn't, that is entirely a failing of people again, not mechanics. 14 hours to break in is more than generous enough for a defense. Or are you saying that its fair in any way that a raiding group should have to play constantly for more than 14 hours to raid a single town that no one is even bothering to defend? From the point of view of the raiders, mechanics NOW are MASSIVELY unfair and make raiding difficult for anyone who doesn't have a LOT of free time. And the stall tax system might make it easier for Darwoth to do what he does all alone, but I assure you that the money needed to raid like this is attainable for any small group.

They didn't even know they could break Townbells until a few weeks before they were raided.

The TbF was protected by a donuted town. It would have taken waste scents and a throw-away high end character to take it out. They chose to just move and/or quit the game due to their views on broken mechanics instead of risking more characters.

They tried to keep a watch when the TbF went up but they couldn't do it 24/7. You shouldn't have to have everyone available 24/7 via phone calls just to not lose years of work on a town under a TbF that someone who's being fed unlimited silver can keep up forever. That's asking too much of any game population and is not a good mechanic or the makings for a good game.

I don't think that we need buffs to raiding or buffs to defending. What is unfair/broken is that they completely lost the town after 14 hours of not being able to be there. Darwoth should have absolutely been able to break in, loot everything, summon and kill anyone with scents and then the town should have been able to come back on and rebuild. The loss of the town is devastating. The loss of all keys and some characters who were then trapped behind walls they built themselves is devastating. These are the parts of the broken mechanics I have problems with. By all means, let raiders loot, raid, kill and do whatever but let the towns rebuild and keep growing. Donuted TbF's and unlimited silver are the problems that are causing the mechanic failures. We'll never have large community towns and a successful game without changes to the mechanic.

in my opinion,

You rarely consider the implications of your opinions so they don't carry much weight any more.

Clearly you're reacting to them. This thread is the largest active one on the forum page right now. Other long time players are saying the same things.

is that when basic mechanics of the game are challenged the dev's and mods attack the player base questioning the problem. Why not defend why the mechanic (in this case Dev Island and it's affect on the game) is good or necessary for the game or the competition within the game instead of acting like jackasses.

No one is attacking the player base. People are calling you an idiot for harping on something that almost everyone else agrees is fine. There are a number of fortuitous islands on the map and some are quite difficult to break in to. But they are all possible, and if they aren't devs will intervene to make sure they are. Some may be more difficult than others (and Darwoth's island is NOT one of the more difficult ones), but they are all possible for a small, determined group. Maybe even a determined individual, depends on the skill level and stubbornness.

While islands might not be necessary, they do exist and it would be pretty ****** of us to destroy all of them now. Not to mention massively difficult and risky to the server stability. We left that stupid little map segment up in the NW just because a couple towns were up there already. We don't want it there making the map not square, making us code an exception into the map mechanic, but we left it because making those people move would have been an ass thing to do and we do try to be nice when we can. Same goes for the islands.

Look, if there are other islands, fine. I've never seen any like this one tho. We need a competitive game. Honestly you guys keep missing what I'm saying. The problem isn't that the island is super defensible. The problem is that he's allowed to have a base that forces an attacker to defend the TbF or TbC while he never has to. He has always had the option of building a donuted TbF or TbC while we can't build one against his characters. The island shouldn't have a town on it. Clearly you guys didn't want a town on it when you built it and now there is one. If you guys can't change or force people to not break the mechanics you set in place then the game is broken. Change the mechanics to make the game more competitive and to limit the advantages gained by islands like this.

[Hose]

Filthy weeaboo

[Judaism]

"Permanent" waste-claims are indeed broken and have to be fixed.

The fact that they raised the silver from 240 -> 480 a day, several months ago makes them agree on that atleast. IIRC, there was a time John destroyed claimed leanto's back in the days, when we surrounded a waste-claim with it.

His valid argument was that people would require crimes in order to remove it, waste claims do need a large revamp, if they stay in the game at all.

I do not like inconsistency with the many (******) exceptions.

Just put a time limit on waste claims (2 days orso) and let them have a burn effect which makes it impossible to waste from that town for a period of time (1 week orso).

[TotalyMeow]

People keep talking about the "other" islands but I've never seen one with this much protection from "protected" TbF's or TbC's. Again, it's not about the protections of the Dev Island town it's about the inability to build a protected TbF or TbC against it.

You always, always say I don't understand whichever mechanic but then you don't point out where I'm wrong. You do it constantly and it's idiotic. Simply point out where I'm wrong specifically and I'll change what I post.

You always say you'll change what you say, but no matter how many times or in how much detail I or anyone explains something, you never do. In fact, you tend to get worse because you seem to think that you're getting extra attention so you must be right. No, this is just part of my job, to explain.

I think it's been pretty clear, but maybe you just don't understand? We don't care if a waste claim is 'unprotected' because we don't particularly want them to be protected. We don't particularly want them to be unprotected. It's fine either way, though personally I'd prefer to remove waste claims altogether and was disappointed when that wasn't one of the first things we did. We left them in because so many people would have complained if they no longer had the warning and they still will. Now, if we get a landslide of people saying they prefer the removal of waste claims after all, maybe it will be done. Or if someone comes up with a WORKABLE alternative mechanic maybe that can be done; for now this is at least a devil we know.

They didn't even know they could break Townbells until a few weeks before they were raided.

Town bells less than a week old can be broken without a waste claim. This was in the patch notes. An active town would have been on that like a chicken on a beetle.

What is unfair/broken is that they completely lost the town after 14 hours of not being able to be there. By all means, let raiders loot, raid, kill and do whatever but let the towns rebuild and keep growing.

Why? If they can't, in the course of months and weeks, be bothered to do anything to try to help themselves and their town; if they know the time frame when Darwoth is attacking and do nothing, why do they deserve this? There are two types of player in this game: Hunters and Prey. That is how it is, how it is meant to be, and how we intend to keep it. Prey will come and go, some of them will even stay for a long time and that's good. Hunters need prey, but we will only pander to their safety so much. In the end, Salem is all about the raiding. You don't have to attack others, but you'd better by prepared to defend yourself with combat, risk, and possibly the commission of crimes at the very least.

Clearly you're reacting to them. This thread is the largest active one on the forum page right now.

This thread is active mostly because you are talking and I am responding. Responding to direct questions like this is part of my job and this thread could become the most active in the history of the forums without anything meaningful happening in it. I currently have a series of PMs with about as much activity and content and there's no telling when it will end either, but I will keep replying to both of you probably forever. :/

Look, if there are other islands, fine. I've never seen any like this one tho.

Live and learn.

[Darwoth]

actually waste claims are over 800 a day not 400, and absolutely nothing would change anyway as i would just build a new waste claim every 12 hours if i needed to keep one active in the manner i sometimes do which would be a stupid change since the waste claim is there for you to rally your townmembers, step outside and destroy, not sit inside your walls like a ***** until it naturally decays. arcadia had 4 months to break into a stone wall guarded by a single torchpost to save themselves, they chose not to. they also had 3 months before that to destroy or nullify through many possible tactics the hostile townbell, they chose not to. then they had two weeks UNDER SIEGE where there were no illusions to what was coming to destroy the bstones of the attack town that were also vulnerable due to said siege, they chose not to. and finally they had another week after i first took their mine to counter and once again did not.

they then decided to focus all their attention on the distraction i created while i broke in through the other area, they also livestreamed their defense weaknesses to the entire server for months and in spite of being under siege for two weeks decided not to bolster those defenses at all which allowed me to effortlessly sail through the entire town largely afk/tabbed out for hours until i tore the bell down.

arcadia could have defended themselves just fine witth the SIX active people that were logging in to refill braziers and check on things all of whom were several hundred stat characters, they instead made a series of huge mistakes because they were convinced it was "impossible" to raid them.