Game Development: Every Little... + Development Thoughts

[Nephilim]

I know what Jorb said about wipes, but maybe can we get more precise answer? Its very imporant for some of us.

[mdm20]

There are still some ways to get a huge population once the game is complete

Even if the game were 100% complete, it would never have a huge population. Crafting MMO's typically involve a lot of repetitive grinding and slow advancement of your character, and usually only have a limited player base. Salem is no different in the grind aspect, but adds the possibility of all your time/effort being destroyed at the whim of another player or group of players. I think the market for this type of game is very limited.

[Spazzmaticus]

I know what Jorb said about wipes, but maybe can we get more precise answer? Its very imporant for some of us.

None of the devs ever made any real promises. When they wiped the servers last times they said it would hopefully be the last. As long as they give us a 1 week heads up I can live with it. I wouldn't have stuck around if I didn't like the base game itself rather than the progress I've made in this specific world. I', for one, would gladly accept a wipe if it means the implementation of wipe-worthy updates.

Heh. Wipe...

[L33LEE]

There are still some ways to get a huge population once the game is complete

Even if the game were 100% complete, it would never have a huge population. Crafting MMO's typically involve a lot of repetitive grinding and slow advancement of your character, and usually only have a limited player base. Salem is no different in the grind aspect, but adds the possibility of all your time/effort being destroyed at the whim of another player or group of players. I think the market for this type of game is very limited.

huge meaning a couple thousand players like in HnH, and not 100 max.

70 players > 2000 is a "HUGE" difference.

Again you rarely must play this game either, if your efforts are destroyed in this game, you are a bad player. Its like you playing Fifa 2013 and losing endlessly to the easiest of AI, you should not be playing the game, chances are will rage quit and stop playing it and say "Its a crap game", when infact its a brilliant game, its just your rubbish.

Fun fact, 99.99% of the players which have come through Salem, have not had the intelligence needed to play the game, thus they quit, give mega bad reviews across the web detouring more players. This game requires common sense, sadly since the 90's all new borns lack this "common sense" genetic makeup, thus we have a world full of gaming retards.

In Salem in its current state, within 20-30h~ of gameplay and maybe £15 upfront investment I can assure you i would be 50~ biles, have a minimum 20x20 base with a splitrail fence and stone hedge, and about 20 braziers inside making it untouchable to 99.9999999999% of the player base, and if im hidden away somewhere nice, i will never be found by a massive group.

Games in which players are bad in, they do no play, most left salem because of old machanics which allowed players to destroy your base in seconds reguarless of defence, its totally different now days, and the game needs to stress this.

If a new server / wipe was to happen on salem now, it would be the most carebear, criminal free, perma death mmo on the market.

[Trypticoon]

Fun fact, 99.99% of the players which have come through Salem, have not had the intelligence needed to play the game

I don't know how many people have actually played Salem, but I doubt it's the millions required to make your statement true. Unless you're trying to say that less than 10 people have been smart enough to play the game.

[mdm20]

if your efforts are destroyed in this game, you are a bad player.

So everyone that dies is a bad player? How exactly do new players defend themselves against dying, other than logging off?

In Salem in its current state, within 20-30h~ of gameplay and maybe £15 upfront investment I can assure you i would be 50~ biles, have a minimum 20x20 base with a splitrail fence and stone hedge, and about 20 braziers inside making it untouchable to 99.9999999999% of the player base, and if im hidden away somewhere nice, i will never be found by a massive group.

It might take YOU that amount of time, but I think a completely new player will have a significantly longer learning curve. Also, I doubt many new players will pay $20, which slows them down even more.

[Shizen]

In HnH they expect a wipe for the next world, it's been part of the game forever and they know it's coming. In Salem, you and everybody else involved in the game have stated repeatedly that there will be no wipes so we are not expecting a wipe. In fact I'd say that the hardcore players left have continued playing Salem simply because we thought that there would be no wipe. You do not need a map wipe or a total wipe, selected wipes of broken gluttony mechanics could do the trick (hummus, seeds, worms, bins, character stat lowering). As for map wipes, maybe if you left the characters and the map in place but rebuilt the map as it was in pristine mode. I could live with that. I do not want to remap the world for myself.

I hear (and feel) your pain, but as a developer myself I have to say... If they were going to do a full wipe of a server, the opportunity to employ a more sophisticated map generator would proof too tempting (to me). Given they have static node values & distribution, they could actually write alogrithms to track river flows, water sheds, elevations, etc. and assign various node types with an awareness of these things, making for much more rewarding/interesting maps. I don't really want to remap either, but given the state of things, I think Jorb is right to keep "all options on the table". Long term, it would be better.

Besides, I'm pretty sure their implementation would require rebuilding the world map in order to undo all the terraforming (and tree planting) performed to date (even if they wrote the algorithms to zero out structures and man-made liftables/tile terrain).

[Shizen]

Fun fact, 99.99% of the players which have come through Salem, have not had the intelligence needed to play the game, thus they quit, give mega bad reviews across the web detouring more players. This game requires common sense, sadly since the 90's all new borns lack this "common sense" genetic makeup, thus we have a world full of gaming retards.

99.99%? You and I have wildly different definitions of the word "fact".

In Salem in its current state, within 20-30h~ of gameplay and maybe £15 upfront investment I can assure you i would be 50~ biles, have a minimum 20x20 base with a splitrail fence and stone hedge, and about 20 braziers inside making it untouchable to 99.9999999999% of the player base, and if im hidden away somewhere nice, i will never be found by a massive group.

This is obviously completely untrue. I could crack that base, as could about 8 other people I can think of off hand, and we're all mid-tier players. CG could merrily waltz through such a base (as you should know), and given the current player base, they represent ~4% of the player base on their own (unless some of them have quit).

[RonPaulFTW]

Please don't wipe

Having played for a couple weeks now (never played HnH) I'd like to offer up a couple thoughts about the long term viability.

1.) Beginner protection for 2 weeks
2.) Safe in game trading among players. You take a 15-20% cut.
3.) Player stalls should be able to buy and sell. Lots more player stalls - and make them turn over more often - maybe cancel lease due to inactivity.
4.) Solution for 2&3 might be a super bazaar stall where players can list stuff for buy/sell only while their character is in boston.
5.) Player town stalls. You take your standard stall cut. This would provide an easy mechanism for established players to recruit n00bs to do work for them (make hay etc...) and pay them. N00bs more likely to play with a clear path up. More likely to restart too.
6.) Some of us have dev experience. Let us help.

[L33LEE]

This is obviously completely untrue. I could crack that base, as could about 8 other people I can think of off hand, and we're all mid-tier players..

If you think you can walk into a 20+ brazier concentrated base ALONE (from what your statement sounds like) in a 20x20 tile area, behind a stone wall and destroy the base, your either hacking the game or have 2000+ Black bile, which i would love to see you prove either one.

Either way, your statement clearly shows you are a complete *******, and have no clue how brazier damage really works or what your talking about.

We shall call this, colesie syndrome.

*Points you towards the 99.99%*