2017 Roadmap

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Darwoth » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:05 pm

Paradoxyc wrote:I think the new mechanics of claim drain but with the old tea regen would be fair


then you obviously never raided under the old system.

tea regen was the same as now at 1 per tick at max value, the old drain was something like .4 or .5 a tick, now it is something like 4.5 (hard to tell exactly because they are separate drain on slightly off/unsynced timers)

this meant that the tea would allow you to walk around on some morons 5 million tile wide pclaim without faceplanting in the middle of it as people have been abusing for the last 2 years. the problem does not get fixed by a half assed "compromise" with a horrible change, it gets fixed by removing the change entirely and reverting to when the game was not *****.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Darwoth » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:07 pm

Chrumps wrote:The things I hate in current crime, defence and cold systems are:
1. Logging in naked and freezing in Providence which should be a costly option, not an usual case.
2. Having to spend actively a lot of time to break into an abandoned claim
3. Breaking a claimstone being the most logical approach to robbing someone's base, thus forcing huge damage to a player when the real objective is theft. Note, it is more profitable to rob someone again and again rather than making him ragequit.
4. Insane costs of repairing walls during peaceful modernization
5. Being able to be stocked again and again over the same crime, resulting in the same punishment no matter how many scents were dropped. It is ok how stocks can reduce an char to a newb level but this should happen with multiple scents rather than with single one.

What about following changes:
1. Make a claimstone, even empty indestructible with waste.
2. Make a claimstone destructible with arson with double or triple speed when empty.
3. Make criminal gear reduce claim BB drain as it should.
4. Add (restore in fact) TBF mechanics for pclaims. The effect of such a waste claim would be soak reduction and repair cost increase and perhaps drain reduction too. Add the same features to regular TBF. Without waste claim the attacking mechanics is unchanged, but (5) makes it easier to defend.
On a practical side such waste claim would restore previous mechanics but with 24 hour warning.
5. Reduce repair costs when not under pclaim-TBF or regular TBF. Alternatively, add a way to prevent splash even after 7 day timer has expired.
6. Allow a single scent to be used only once to stock a player. To stock more than once one will need different scents. Note, that (1)&(2) force a criminal to drop more scents in most cases.
7. Double TBC timers.
8. Reduce theft base BB cost.



if i could vomit through my monitor all over your keyboard i would do so.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Paradoxyc » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:12 pm

Darwoth wrote:
Paradoxyc wrote:I think the new mechanics of claim drain but with the old tea regen would be fair


then you obviously never raided under the old system.

tea regen was the same as now at 1 per tick at max value, the old drain was something like .4 or .5 a tick, now it is something like 4.5 (hard to tell exactly because they are separate drain on slightly off/unsynced timers)

this meant that the tea would allow you to walk around on some morons 5 million tile wide pclaim without faceplanting in the middle of it as people have been abusing for the last 2 years. the problem does not get fixed by a half assed "compromise" with a horrible change, it gets fixed by removing the change entirely and reverting to when the game was not *****.


IIRC the drain is about 3 BB per tick? And with tea giving back 1 per tick I think it still makes the drain dangerous but at least gives you a lot more time
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby MaxPlanck » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:22 pm

So what we should do is set BB drain to 1.5 per tick and have tea regen of a 1.0 per tick allowing raiders to be at 0.5 drain thus forcing raiders to drink tea to get **** done but not allowing unlimited trespassing even with tea.
(A person at 100 Black bile left would have 200 ticks to get off claim with tea active, I don't know how often it ticks at, but a minimum of 200 seconds; 3 minutes and 20 seconds to get off)

To keep this less bias as possible towards either party of raiders/defenders I do not believe its okay that raiders can be on claim indefinitely just because they drink some tea, whilst I also believe that its not okay for defenders to be so safe because claims are already so big and the high BB drain is stupid as it is now.

Thus settling between the two would be best in terms of balance with either
a. 1.5 drain with tea at 1.0 recovery
or
b. 0.5 drain with no tea regen during crime as it is now
Last edited by MaxPlanck on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Darwoth » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:34 pm

Paradoxyc wrote:IIRC the drain is about 3 BB per tick? And with tea giving back 1 per tick I think it still makes the drain dangerous but at least gives you a lot more time



cant remember been a long time since i measured it and do not recall if i had extra variables in play or if i was doubled up on a townclaim in addition. it is either around 3.5 or 4.5

the point is the passive claimed drain is not supposed to be dangerous, walls with braziers, mortars and players behind them are supposed to be dangerous. making the drain outweigh the tea defeats the purpose of changing either as the exact same problem persists in the exact same manner, people will just slightly increase their broken claim to compensate.

nope, simply reverting to the way it was when the game had hundreds of players instead of dozens is the answer.

if someone can not defend in the middle of a giant pclaim under the old drain/mechanics then your just retarded, defenders still had a huge advantage then which is why if you read through the old forum threads there is a solid year or more of judaism, goodman, methuzelah, lailaith etc complaining about raiding being "impossible" back then as well, i was the only one activelyt raiding for a while and the system before the jinglebomb patch was a pretty good balance of high advantage for defender which there should be, yet not the absurdly moronic **** that we have now so it was not a days to week long endeavor to knock down an undefended mediocre town.

carebears hiding and logging off when people walked by still had all the cards in their favor, that is why being jinglebombed on top of it was the final nail for most competitive players. the patch was a kneejerk reaction by a developer who had again been out of the loop/out of touch for nearly a year before randomly appearing again with that patch a week after a bunch of dumbasses (most of whom are now kukraps :lol: :lol: :lol: ) left all their borderstones outside their walls after i specifically warned them in advance to protect them meaning it was about 5 minutes after the siege began that they lost control of their perimeter. then several people did super "smart" things like standing in front of the enemy bunker gate shaking their fist and talking **** so they got lassoed in (GB) or deciding to exit the town on their mains to collect a bunch of water to plant flowers during the middle of an active siege with enemies running around.

"nobody should lose a town like that in a day maaaaaaaan" was the reason given for the draconian ***** you to the entire raiding community. nevermind the fact the "defenders" might as well have left the ***** gates open.

point is moot though, little if anything will change to improve matters as the personalities involved do not like to admit they are wrong.
Last edited by Darwoth on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Darwoth » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:39 pm

MaxPlanck wrote:So what we should do is set BB drain to 1.5 per tick and have tea regen of a 1.0 per tick allowing raiders to be at 0.5 drain thus forcing raiders to drink tea to get **** done but not allowing unlimited trespassing even with tea.
(A person at 100 Black bile left would have 200 ticks to get off claim with tea active, I don't know how often it ticks at, but a minimum of 200 seconds; 3 minutes and 20 seconds to get off)

To keep this less bias as possible towards either party of raiders/defenders I do not believe its okay that raiders can be on claim indefinitely just because they drink some tea, whilst I also believe that its not okay for defenders to be so safe because claims are already so big and the high BB drain is stupid as it is now.

Thus settling between the two would be best in terms of balance with either
a. 1.5 drain with tea at 1.0 recovery
or
b. 0.5 drain with no tea regen during crime as it is now



nope. answer is a full revert to the previous system.

i realize you have two huge pclaims you are invested in but they do not suddenly become worthless when the correct drain rate is reapplied to them. people simply need to learn to stop abusing *****. we did not have retarded problems like this before and there is fundamentally zero difference for the defender who still only needs to casually afk watch his walls and repair/refill/mortar every now and then.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby MaxPlanck » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:49 pm

You are indeed right on the fact that unused pclaim space should mean nothing to the raider and that any pclaim expansion should be built upon to mean something. If I did have walls brimmed out towards the end of my pclaim I would have most likely approached my conclusion just a moment ago about how it could/should be.
As such, a big pclaim with all the space used up makes that pclaim all the more worthwhile compared to any other places as should be expected.

Double-checking back with it I can say that setting the drain + tea regen back to the way it was is in no problem of its own and that with the addition of mortars still in after a revert like this is still advantageous on the defenders than in the past.

As for the concussion which lowers BB maximum way too much, whilst it would encourage much more active defending it would still put out a raider for a few hours even if they would be able to escape the pclaim drain with tea.

The concussion timer would either need to be limited to 1 hour max or something of that which, or still be set to 4+ hours max timer but the max BB hit taken should be no more than 50-60% than the current 90+% max BB reduction it can reach.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby Darwoth » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:53 pm

MaxPlanck wrote:You are indeed right on the fact that unused pclaim space should mean nothing to the raider and that any pclaim expansion should be built upon to mean something. If I did have walls brimmed out towards the end of my pclaim I would have most likely approached my conclusion just a moment ago about how it could/should be.
As such, a big pclaim with all the space used up makes that pclaim all the more worthwhile compared any other places as should be expected.

Double-checking back with it I can say that setting the drain + tea regen back to the way it was is in no problem of its own and that with the addition of mortars still in after a revert like this is still advantageous on the defenders than in the past.

As for the concussion which lowers BB maximum way too much, whilst it would encourage much more active defending it would still put out a raider for a few hours even if they would be able to escape the pclaim drain with tea.

The concussion timer would either need to be limited to 1 hour max or something of that which, or still be set to 4+ hours max timer but the max BB hit taken should be no more than 50-60% than the current 90+% max BB reduction it can reach.




nod, also keep in mind that in addition to mortars steel walls would likely remain since so many people have already built them and they require considerable investment.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby roweanmcroy » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:55 pm

I would just like to say that dispite the delays in changes this year, I still love salem and will continue to play it and look forward to the new expedition when it gets here. :) Pls don't write off this wonderful game.
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Re: 2017 Roadmap

Postby gorniksam » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:01 pm

roweanmcroy wrote:I would just like to say that dispite the delays in changes this year, I still love salem and will continue to play it and look forward to the new expedition when it gets here. :) Pls don't write off this wonderful game.

such optimist, god bless you
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