Popham Winnings

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Judaism » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:23 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:I also don't think we made a lot of mistakes, we just thought you'd all cooperate a little more.


So since you guys clearly are going to let many important mechanics (like cannons) broken left into the game, I have a relevant question.

Are you guys going to adjust the expeditions towards the ''incompetent'' playerbase more than anticipated or less, basicly I am asking whether you guys think minor changes will get the job done or whether you guys give us more than you ''actually'' want with ''larger'' overhauls.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:41 pm

lachlaan wrote:If you guys run out of ideas for the expedition after next, you could always just give Claeyt only the possibility to place a special type of character, that can't build anything or really do more than chat at people, and every time he asks for proof or tries to argue against someone's position, they gain insanity, up to potentially dying of 10 levels of madness. We then all need to band together and collect ban fragments that have been shattered by the old gods, each time Claeyt made Jorb and Loftar break a keyboard in the past, and once we go through the many shifting objectives and gather sufficient whole bans we can vanquish Claeyt and inherit our characters as well as the then-industry, weed and other drugs, stuff which would help manage sanity and help change the moods and capabilities of our characters, ranging from chewing coca leaves for higher focus and productivity for a bit then withdrawal, to rudimentary indiginous versions of bath salts making you a monster in combat with some changed attacks and no defenses. If instead Claeyt manages to drive everyone off, providence gets 5x higher insanity gain and bloodmoons just set you at the madness level before death xD


I love this idea. Stealing now.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby pietrko » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:17 pm

Any plans related to gunpowder generation? I think I've heard about plans regarding that.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:46 pm

pietrko wrote:Any plans related to gunpowder generation? I think I've heard about plans regarding that.


I don't know, but it would be a small thing rather than a roadmap item.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Claeyt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:06 pm

Darwoth wrote:for the record if the playerbase does not step up to the plate i will do an even better job the next go around, this result was with me starting six months late and the majority of my time on the server after dispatching the last few threats in my busy time of year thus spent dragging ass and hardly playing but to check for cannon attacks, i did not take advantage of any of a number of things i could have made far better use of. but i will on expedition 2!


For the record, I don't blame any of this on you. You played it well and used the mechanics of Popham effectively especially after everyone else left it. You clearly spent a ton of time grinding and raising then leap-frogging character scalps to get that many masks. The problem I have is that you had that much time with no one else on to do it. The server should have just ended or maybe some timer should have been set off, where you lose the skill if you don't visit all the statues within a month. Either way it was silly to keep it live and just let you use it like that. I don't know if you or Dallane get it but competitive games are fun games. I think you actually want the game to have more competition but this server, due to it being somewhat flawed didn't fully deliver that. But like I said, the biggest problem I had with all of this is that every prize went to you (yes you worked for it) because the server should have ended earlier.

Adelewhy wrote:This is not a socialist game... you work for it, you earn it. Everyone knew there would be rewards and they chose not to go for it. Seriously I'm really confused at how it's "broken" when no one else tried hard enough.

Everyone tried hard but once Darwoth got the T3 Witch and broke the last of the competing statue controlling ring towns to study them it became pointless to keep playing it unless you just wanted to grind characters. Once Darwoth had the last Statue town and his witch logged out next to it, it was over and should have ended.

lachlaan wrote:God Claeyt is a good troll though. I want to rebuke his points with a passion, the bait is strong.

The argument that the ark was pointless collides with the argument that Darwoth was left to benefit from animals on his own. You should've powered through the ark if only to force him to end it sooner to keep animals from you. The race was always framed in those terms, finish the ark before the witch can finish the server.

The ark was easy, if you don't know how easy it'd be to get 100 clovers then you're the one that doesn't play enough, or properly, claeyt.

It is not easy to get 100 4 leaf clovers as they are very very rare in the wild. They could have been found or taken out of mailboxes but it would all have been pointless. The ark was an impossible goal once Darwoth had studied at all 5 statues he didn't have surrounded by a town. It would have been stupid to even try to finish it unless you added all the materials in one goal.

The better way anyone could have ended it would have been one of the larger groups building a cannon on Darwoth's town and then protecting it and making him study the last statue inside his town. This would have taken a couple of days and would have been the easiest way to end it.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby lachlaan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:27 pm

I can get you a guaranteed 5 four leaf clovers per day. It might be related to the fact that if I have nothing else to do I can just roam endlessly as my default setting, and that I've gotten some idea about foraging as efficiently as possible, but it is definitely doable and it is just a bad excuse to pin the whole issue on clovers. If people had actually worked on the wood for the project, they'd have had plenty of time inbetween phases of production to forage. The basic truth is that people did not want to do any of it. I myself am guilty of getting discouraged and willingly leaving it be, and consciously whining and moaning the first time we even had to make a barn. But I acknowledge that it was all on me and my playstyle not on the game for being too hard. There are people that thrive off of doing woodworking, and people that like to forage, at worst the issue is that not all tasks are suited for all players, and I think that's a pro not a con. I say this in the voices of Jorb, Loftar, JC, Meow and Marp combined, and I'm sure they agree with me even tho it's totally out of character for my carebear ways, but srsly man, "GET GUD" :| that's what the lazy ones of us deserve to be told, and such is life. Next expedition do more.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Claeyt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:31 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:Yes, Darwoth put in the massive time and effort required to win all of the things while everyone else made the conscious decision to sit by and watch. This is by now means broken, it's the nature of a sandbox. It might be that every expedition server will end like this, with one player having the drive to do it all while the rest of you sit around and wish it was you. And we're fine with that. Sure we'll do our best to try to make a fun and enticing server, but it's all up to the players in the end. I also don't think we made a lot of mistakes, we just thought you'd all cooperate a little more.


It's a bad dev's who continuously blames their player base for not living up to the over complexities of their game. Marp said some of these same things during the witch clues. This is deving 101 here. It's not the player base's fault if the game fails because they don't do what you want.

TotalyMeow wrote:Yes, the statues will still be a thing. Cannibalism will be too, along with cannons. They are all part of the expanded mechanics of an expedition server. Cannibalism was not 'easily abusable by Darwoth' though, everyone had the exact same opportunity to use it. I'm not sure how you think the ark was 'used wrong'. It was used wrong by the community perhaps in that you didn't ever finish it.


I agreed with you here. Darwoth was the one who used it the most by raising characters to scalp. Anyone else could have done this but after the T3 was done it became a lot less fun to imagine grinding on Popham.

TotalyMeow wrote:As I recall, there were a couple people who followed it the whole way, and the server only really needed one witch to get things started. There were many witches though, so while I can agree that it was probably too EASY to make witches with this method, the overall scavenger hunt idea was a pretty good one, more fun than just handing out dolls. I wonder if we can make you get flagged at each waypoint so you can't benefit from the final stop unless you've been though all the previous ones. ¦]


I don't know anyone who found it this way, if there is someone who found all the clues then let them come forward here and point it out. I found it after being contacted by someone with some generic directions about a mountain in the south. It was then easy to spot and read the signs. Either way it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. A head start on the witch didn't affect the T2 and T3 requirements. But Dev changes to Darkenbear hunting from water during the expedition on both Popham and Providence did change those requirements. Some people got their requirements before it became harder.

TotalyMeow wrote:Again, sandbox. If you didn't want him to get all the top prizes you should have made sure you out-fished him or something. You should have taken that witch you say you had and ended the server yourself (with cannons, that town he had around one statue was more for show than anything). Or you should have completed the ark; there is no doubt in my mind that one determined person could have completed it. If that had been Darwoth's goal, that ark would have been done in a few weeks.

But by building the ark you would have at the very least forced him to end the server early, thus not getting all the prizes. Those leaderboards didn't look like that a few months ago. And who says he had time to check the ark every day? It didn't look like it was going anywhere, so he had no reason to keep a close eye on it, he only had to claim he was to scare everyone off. Someone could have easily completed it stealthily, especially if you had the coordination to distract him with some sort of raiding feint. Said feint could have even turned real with witches breaking into the statue and praying. The possibilities are many and hilarious for what you could have done to finish the ark and stuff it with animals while making Darwoth look like a *******. But no one did, so sad.

In fact, the Ark was never competition for the witch. It was meant to be a race between the good pilgrims of Popham and the witches of Popham, with people trying to protect the statues from Witches while building the Ark for their animals. The server was always going to be destroyed, which is why the Ark was needed to save them.

The Ark was never designed to be terribly difficult, only challenging. It's just that... no one was up to the challenge.


Again, why are you blaming the player base for this?

The players were all trying to become witches and hunt the requirements and then once that was completed by a player there was a small window where he didn't have access to all the statues and when that was gone building the Ark and investing that much time into it would have only saved a few list prizes as he could have ended it at anytime he saw the Ark getting done.

You keep saying anyone could have ended it, but you're wrong. Darwoth had the ability to end the server in seconds while the Ark would have taken weeks (minimum) and a cannon would have taken a day or 2 and required a raid. Yes a cannon on his town could have ended it but why bother if you know you're not going to win the server. I don't really care about the lists or the prizes. Yes it massively helps Darwoth in masks and aprons but it's the point of the matter that bothers me most. Why wait months to give out prizes and let Darwoth sit on Popham with a winning hand collecting more prizes after everyone else left? Blaming the player base for leaving the server is stupid for a dev to do and instead should make them ask themselves "Why is everyone leaving and letting Darwoth sit there grinding up and leap-frogging the smaller prize lists?" and then go out and fix it. Don't blame the players for leaving if there was zero chance of them winning the server.

TotalyMeow wrote:
Masks do help a lot in combat. Aprons do help a ton in gluttony. This makes the game easier for Darwoth forever and harder for new players joining recently. It's hard to impossible to get an apron or mask on Providence compared to what Darwoth did on Popham where he just topped himself until he had all 10.


Nothing is forever. Go raid Darwoth! New players get to try the next server! Have some foresight once in awhile.


Unfortunately for those new players, Darwoth has plenty of combat enhancing masks and gluttony helping aprons to fight off raiders with. :roll:

(Yes I know they're not that big of a deal. :roll: )
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Judaism » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:42 pm

Claeyt wrote:It's a bad dev's who continuously blames their player base for not living up to the over complexities of their game.


I kept believing after everyone quit Popham and the big failure which it sadly became that they truely would throw away the whole concept of Popham in general for the PvP/Raid experiences and instead focus on a balanced Providence. Now they state that they have done little wrong which is quite concerning to me and is exactly why I am so insistent.

Pre-Popham when they shared their mechanics and terms I plainly stated several times that the mechanics weren't going to cut it and that it was a rip-off and it didn't meet its expectations far from it, many mechanics were filled with bugs and actually they didn't cared that Darwoth lighted his cannons without actually leaving scents, it was enough to piss Loms off to pernamently quit alongside many of his Russian friends. Cannons that got path blocked by using objects/skeletons nothing fixed. TBF's, TBC's and all that crap in a short-term server. Now Salem has lost alot of its playerbase due to ***** and it just pisses me off that they simply carry on with the same mentality without admitting their mistakes. Their proud in all their mechanics that they have released led towards inescapable gameplay which has and will be **** for time to come. The majority of my friends have quit this game, nor will come back and yet we still have all those hatred mechanics on both Providence and our future expeditions.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Claeyt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:47 pm

lachlaan wrote:I can get you a guaranteed 5 four leaf clovers per day.

but srsly man, "GET GUD" :|

I seriously doubt you can get 5 four leafs foraged in a day in any way possible now. That's silly.

As for getting GUD, don't get your undies in a bunch. Overall I think the server was a success. Darwoth deserved to win it, I don't dispute that. I was hoping to get lucky and started off with a big, friendly active group but I knew I didn't have the time to dedicate to Popham after the Witch Clues so as to win it. I thought CAKE had a chance there for a minute and they probably did but it didn't happen. I'm mostly just disappointed that the dev's left the server to rot for so long and let Darwoth get every list prize. This looks bad for the game imo and shouldn't have happened. The rest of the problems in the server like the ARK and the Witch clues (sacrificing a goat was fun) were okay mechanics but mismanaged in the moment. I think they could be used elsewhere more effectively.

Judaism wrote:
Claeyt wrote:It's a bad dev's who continuously blames their player base for not living up to the over complexities of their game.


I kept believing after everyone quit Popham and the big failure which it sadly became that they truely would throw away the whole concept of Popham in general for the PvP/Raid experiences and instead focus on a balanced Providence. Now they state that they have done little wrong which is quite concerning to me and is exactly why I am so insistent.

Pre-Popham when they shared their mechanics and terms I plainly stated several times that the mechanics weren't going to cut it and that it was a rip-off and it didn't meet its expectations far from it, many mechanics were filled with bugs and actually they didn't cared that Darwoth lighted his cannons without actually leaving scents, it was enough to piss Loms off to pernamently quit alongside many of his Russian friends. Cannons that got path blocked by using objects/skeletons nothing fixed. TBF's, TBC's and all that crap in a short-term server. Now Salem has lost alot of its playerbase due to ***** and it just pisses me off that they simply carry on with the same mentality without admitting their mistakes. Their proud in all their mechanics that they have released led towards inescapable gameplay which has and will be **** for time to come. The majority of my friends have quit this game, nor will come back and yet we still have all those hatred mechanics on both Providence and our future expeditions.


Yeah I forgot about those cannon bugs.

I see Meth still playing everyday. I doubt LOMS is gone forever, who knows. Either way, people come and people go. I've lost and gained players I play with daily more times than I can count. I've closed towns where I played with 15 daily players (TT) and cleaned out more lean to's of players who no longer play than anyone probably. That's all part of the game. I'm more worried about the future and the game's competitive aspects.

The idea of a PvP server and a permanent server is a good one. I hope they keep doing it. I'd like to see it better handled but this wasn't an abject failure.
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Re: Popham Winnings

Postby Judaism » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:09 am

Claeyt wrote:Yeah I forgot about those cannon bugs.


The last statue collapsed without leaving a single scents overnight, I mentioned the bug and aparently it was completely fine. I didn't do proper checkings on the statue so ultimately it woudn't had mattered but if I did there woud've been no way to get justice on Darwoth's cannonier. Perhaps it was a very skilled one which woud've been valuable and made all of his ''raids'' so easy, thats all assumptions but it just shows their mentality about Popham.
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