Popham Winnings

[Forungi]

judaism is just mad that i am yet again the man.

This picture is just great

[Claeyt]

Will be delivering rewards, leaderboard stuffs and doing other things shortly.

So for the record, based on the lists Darwoth posted, every single prize from Popham on every list will go to Darwoth (except for maybe the time list and fishing)?

This doesn't seem broken to you?

While all of us gave up on Popham after Darwoth was able to end it at any point he wanted, he was allowed by you to grind 100% inheritance characters with animal foods and cannibalism on a server which no one played anymore because there was no viable way to end it before he chose to end it?

I understand that this was your first go and that you guys pointed out mistakes you understand you made. I hope the next ones better and this one wasn't a complete failure, just a little broken. Here's my 5 worst things and 5 best things about Popham in my opinion:

Best Things:

1. The Statues were a blast to find and study. We need more of these.

2. Cannibalism. This was easily abusable by Darwoth but still fun to play with.

3. Animals. I think they actually turned out pretty good overall. I still want random bull attacks in the wild but overall they turned out pretty good and seem like a solid if hard mechanic.

4. I like the entire concept of a permanent versus short term PvP server. This was a good idea, even loftar agrees.

5. The Ark. This was used wrong by you on Popham but mass community projects like this could absolutely be fun on another server.

Worst Things:

1. The wild goose chase of Marp's that had to be changed a few weeks in. This was waaaay to hard and pointless at the same time. This was the number one reason people quit the server in my experience. STILL, here at the end of the server, everyone I know who became a witch including myself either learned where the Witch statue was from seeing the pentagram formation around Popham of the other statues, looked for the statues in a generally distance away from Popham or they learned where the Witch statue was from someone who learned where it was from someone else. I still don't know a single person who actually followed the clues the whole way.

2. The server should not have been left for Darwoth to grind on and to let him just raise characters on special food and cannibalism after everyone quit the server. It should have been shut down after he got to T3 or after you realized that the only one playing it was Darwoth.

3. The Ark mechanic was a mistake (in this case). Darwoth had the ability to end the server by just studying a simple statue which he had surrounded with a town and was logged out next to. This made the Ark pointless for anyone to build if he had that ability to just end it right before it was finished.

4. The Server was probably to big. It was hard finding the statues until you guys did the sound and map icon for them.

5. That time I got bounced between 2 darkenbears on either side of my lean to was really, really annoying.

Overall, good try but learn from your mistakes. It was fun for a bit, but make it more competitive and don't let anyone grind up like that again if the server dies or they have it won.

The ark is incredibly easy to finish. ITS BEEN ALMOST 2 YEARS SINCE POPHAM OPENED. The numbers he used to make the ark buildable were based on the current materials found in the game at that time. It was 100% pure laziness and selfishness that kept the ark from being built

You're an idiot and don't even play the game so how would you know how hard it is to forage four leaf clovers?

The bigger reason the ark was ALWAYS a useless idea on how to compete against Darwoth's witch is because you would have had to finish it and build it without him noticing it was being built. Maybe you could have added all the materials at once and spent a few hours hammering it up but how many trips to Popham would it have taken to bring the boards?

The Ark was a failure by the dev's to try and make it "fair" for non-witches but they never took into account that all Darwoth had to do was study the last statue to finish it if he saw it going up. What's the point of building it if all he has to do is study at a statue he's logged out right next to and in control of with a surrounding town?

It was a non-starter and not a good idea by the dev's even if it was an interesting mechanic that I'd like to see used somewhere else.

This picture is just great

I honestly don't know how to think about the end of Popham. Obviously Darwoth worked a long, long time on Popham to get every single prize from it. He made the T3 and then just sat there grinding with better food than Providence while everyone else just quit because Darwoth had the ability to just end the server at any point. Most of us spend maybe 20 hours a week on Salem and don't have the ability to do that. I understand that all crafting MMO's have this and I wouldn't mind it if he didn't win stuff like aprons that makes it even harder to catch him for someone new willing to put in the time.

I also don't think it's great that the Dev's let the server go for 8 months after he had the ability to end the server at any point and let him grind alone there with special food. I can't imagine this is how they thought the server would end, with no one getting a single list prize except him. And these ARE competitive breaking prizes in some ways. Masks do help a lot in combat. Aprons do help a ton in gluttony. This makes the game easier for Darwoth forever and harder for new players joining recently. It's hard to impossible to get an apron or mask on Providence compared to what Darwoth did on Popham where he just topped himself until he had all 10.

I don't think all those masks and other prizes are the end of the world or absolutely game breaking. Just a little to much for how the server should have been ended and over months ago. So if you're a new player don't be that discouraged. You can still catch Darwoth if you're willing to put in 50-60 hours a week on Salem.

[Dallane]

Look it's cleaty a person who the devs have said are clueless about the game talking about it more. He made another huge post in hopes no one will pick apart all the wrong ***** he just spewed.

[Darwoth]

yeah i literally got less than half way through his post before having enough of the wall of stupid as usual, i really hope there is not a single one of these "newbs without lucky" he prattles about that actually seek him for information or advice of any kind.

for the record if the playerbase does not step up to the plate i will do an even better job the next go around, this result was with me starting six months late and the majority of my time on the server after dispatching the last few threats in my busy time of year thus spent dragging ass and hardly playing but to check for cannon attacks, i did not take advantage of any of a number of things i could have made far better use of. but i will on expedition 2!

[Dallane]

yeah i literally got less than half way through his post before having enough of the wall of stupid as usual, i really hope there is not a single one of these "newbs without lucky" he prattles about that actually seek him for information or advice of any kind.

He is 100% lying about people coming to him. He harasses new people like crazy till they quit usually. Should of saved the chats he sent me constantly on one of my alts.

[lachlaan]

God Claeyt is a good troll though. I want to rebuke his points with a passion, the bait is strong.

The argument that the ark was pointless collides with the argument that Darwoth was left to benefit from animals on his own. You should've powered through the ark if only to force him to end it sooner to keep animals from you. The race was always framed in those terms, finish the ark before the witch can finish the server. People weren't motivated and while I do feel the incentive to play was less than obvious initially, there is a fine line between incentive and hand-holding, and i'd rather not play the game if the only thing holding the community together was JC begging us to play with bribes of random content that isn't coherent with the rest of the mechanics.

The ark was easy, if you don't know how easy it'd be to get 100 clovers then you're the one that doesn't play enough, or properly, claeyt.

The statue scouting wasn't that hard, and just cause you don't specialize in mapping or scouting doesn't mean the premise of the next expedition should be that people are too retarded to walk a few thousand tiles and actually look at the terrain. Popham was about as big as Jamestown and that stuff was tiny as heck compared to providence. There has to be some deterrent from just walking over to your neighbour in 10 minutes and whacking them over the head, a small map defeats the purpose of logistics while doing anything.

I just can't even though, so I'll stop here.

[Adelewhy]

Will be delivering rewards, leaderboard stuffs and doing other things shortly.

So for the record, based on the lists Darwoth posted, every single prize from Popham on every list will go to Darwoth (except for maybe the time list and fishing)?

This doesn't seem broken to you?

This is not a socialist game... you work for it, you earn it. Everyone knew there would be rewards and they chose not to go for it. Seriously I'm really confused at how it's "broken" when no one else tried hard enough.

[Judaism]

I actually agree with a large chunk of what Cleayt said and I do believe some mistakes should be recognized rather than ignore and denial as usually.

1. The wild goose chase of Marp's that had to be changed a few weeks in. This was waaaay to hard and pointless at the same time. This was the number one reason people quit the server in my experience. STILL, here at the end of the server, everyone I know who became a witch including myself either learned where the Witch statue was from seeing the pentagram formation around Popham of the other statues, looked for the statues in a generally distance away from Popham or they learned where the Witch statue was from someone who learned where it was from someone else. I still don't know a single person who actually followed the clues the whole way.

Agreed, we all gave up on this retarded quest and it actually was a large reason why so many quit and why we didn't have a t2 witch within the first 2 orso months, we had no witches and absolutely coudn't figure out the retarded hints as most of us weren't English as main language or native American to understand some history hints. However bear in mind that Salem has many long ''quests'' simular to this to ''unlock'' mechanics/abilities on Providence aswell. (They shoud've been different for Popham, playing on Providence shoudn't had given you a clear information advantage in terms of witchcraft)

(I know for sure that the Russians coudn't figure it out, neither could we which already was a large chunk of the competetive playerbase, IDK about Gudtown but in my perspective it was only Cake, Gudtown and the Russians that were playing competetive early on and account for atleast 50+ people already total)

When I briefly came-back to Popham 5 orso months later I bought the information of becomming a witch, if I woud've been a little bit lucky I actually woud've made a t2 witch in time (yes even after a 5 months break). At that stage we still held a statue, point of it all is that if t3 was easy as it now seems to be, there shoud've been tons of them instead of just a single one at that timeframe.

2. The server should not have been left for Darwoth to grind on and to let him just raise characters on special food and cannibalism after everyone quit the server. It should have been shut down after he got to T3 or after you realized that the only one playing it was Darwoth.

Agreed, the other rewards are called secondary rewards for a reason and shoudn't be nessesarily for the Popham winner. Surely the amount of prices should be large for the victory but there also should be prices for people that have invested their time into Popham, yes Darwoth put the effort in those things but most would actually require active further playing Popham in order to compete. I never was in favour of having secondary prizes and such however if you are going to implement them be more persistent, many leaderbords held no purpose anymore.

3. The Ark mechanic was a mistake (in this case). Darwoth had the ability to end the server by just studying a simple statue which he had surrounded with a town and was logged out next to. This made the Ark pointless for anyone to build if he had that ability to just end it right before it was finished.

It shoud've been completed prio to him becomming a t3 witch or a measure to force end the server, I do agree with the fact that it was pointless afterwords tho. Just like anything else was pointless at that stage as I mentioned earlier.

4. The Server was probably to big. It was hard finding the statues until you guys did the sound and map icon for them.

Agreed, smaller servers are way better.

[TotalyMeow]

I'm actually going to answer this post, just because I figure at least a few of your are interested in the dev viewpoint.

So for the record, based on the lists Darwoth posted, every single prize from Popham on every list will go to Darwoth (except for maybe the time list and fishing)?

This doesn't seem broken to you?

While all of us gave up on Popham after Darwoth was able to end it at any point he wanted, he was allowed by you to grind 100% inheritance characters with animal foods and cannibalism on a server which no one played anymore because there was no viable way to end it before he chose to end it?

Yes, Darwoth put in the massive time and effort required to win all of the things while everyone else made the conscious decision to sit by and watch. This is by now means broken, it's the nature of a sandbox. It might be that every expedition server will end like this, with one player having the drive to do it all while the rest of you sit around and wish it was you. And we're fine with that. Sure we'll do our best to try to make a fun and enticing server, but it's all up to the players in the end. I also don't think we made a lot of mistakes, we just thought you'd all cooperate a little more.

Best Things:

1. The Statues were a blast to find and study. We need more of these.

2. Cannibalism. This was easily abusable by Darwoth but still fun to play with.

3. Animals. I think they actually turned out pretty good overall. I still want random bull attacks in the wild but overall they turned out pretty good and seem like a solid if hard mechanic.

4. I like the entire concept of a permanent versus short term PvP server. This was a good idea, even loftar agrees.

5. The Ark. This was used wrong by you on Popham but mass community projects like this could absolutely be fun on another server.

Yes, the statues will still be a thing. Cannibalism will be too, along with cannons. They are all part of the expanded mechanics of an expedition server. Cannibalism was not 'easily abusable by Darwoth' though, everyone had the exact same opportunity to use it. I'm not sure how you think the ark was 'used wrong'. It was used wrong by the community perhaps in that you didn't ever finish it.

Worst Things:

1. The wild goose chase of Marp's that had to be changed a few weeks in. This was waaaay to hard and pointless at the same time. This was the number one reason people quit the server in my experience. STILL, here at the end of the server, everyone I know who became a witch including myself either learned where the Witch statue was from seeing the pentagram formation around Popham of the other statues, looked for the statues in a generally distance away from Popham or they learned where the Witch statue was from someone who learned where it was from someone else. I still don't know a single person who actually followed the clues the whole way.

As I recall, there were a couple people who followed it the whole way, and the server only really needed one witch to get things started. There were many witches though, so while I can agree that it was probably too EASY to make witches with this method, the overall scavenger hunt idea was a pretty good one, more fun than just handing out dolls. I wonder if we can make you get flagged at each waypoint so you can't benefit from the final stop unless you've been though all the previous ones.

2. The server should not have been left for Darwoth to grind on and to let him just raise characters on special food and cannibalism after everyone quit the server. It should have been shut down after he got to T3 or after you realized that the only one playing it was Darwoth.

Again, sandbox. If you didn't want him to get all the top prizes you should have made sure you out-fished him or something. You should have taken that witch you say you had and ended the server yourself (with cannons, that town he had around one statue was more for show than anything). Or you should have completed the ark; there is no doubt in my mind that one determined person could have completed it. If that had been Darwoth's goal, that ark would have been done in a few weeks.

3. The Ark mechanic was a mistake (in this case). Darwoth had the ability to end the server by just studying a simple statue which he had surrounded with a town and was logged out next to. This made the Ark pointless for anyone to build if he had that ability to just end it right before it was finished.

But by building the ark you would have at the very least forced him to end the server early, thus not getting all the prizes. Those leaderboards didn't look like that a few months ago. And who says he had time to check the ark every day? It didn't look like it was going anywhere, so he had no reason to keep a close eye on it, he only had to claim he was to scare everyone off. Someone could have easily completed it stealthily, especially if you had the coordination to distract him with some sort of raiding feint. Said feint could have even turned real with witches breaking into the statue and praying. The possibilities are many and hilarious for what you could have done to finish the ark and stuff it with animals while making Darwoth look like a *******. But no one did, so sad.

4. The Server was probably to big. It was hard finding the statues until you guys did the sound and map icon for them.

I always thought it felt too small when I was there. With a decent number of people playing, finding the statues shouldn't have been THAT difficult. But we will make sure they get found in any case, even if we have to slowly move them towards town as time passes.

You're an idiot and don't even play the game so how would you know how hard it is to forage four leaf clovers?

Considering how many clovers were put into the ark, I don't think that was the bottleneck. But if it had become obvious that people were trying to build the Ark and making an honest effort and for some reason the clovers were just not being found, we could have reduced that requirement. The Ark was never designed to be terribly difficult, only challenging. It's just that... no one was up to the challenge.

The bigger reason the ark was ALWAYS a useless idea on how to compete against Darwoth's witch...

In fact, the Ark was never competition for the witch. It was meant to be a race between the good pilgrims of Popham and the witches of Popham, with people trying to protect the statues from Witches while building the Ark for their animals. The server was always going to be destroyed, which is why the Ark was needed to save them.

Masks do help a lot in combat. Aprons do help a ton in gluttony. This makes the game easier for Darwoth forever and harder for new players joining recently. It's hard to impossible to get an apron or mask on Providence compared to what Darwoth did on Popham where he just topped himself until he had all 10.

Nothing is forever. Go raid Darwoth! New players get to try the next server! Have some foresight once in awhile.

[lachlaan]

If you guys run out of ideas for the expedition after next, you could always just give Claeyt only the possibility to place a special type of character, that can't build anything or really do more than chat at people, and every time he asks for proof or tries to argue against someone's position, they gain insanity, up to potentially dying of 10 levels of madness. We then all need to band together and collect ban fragments that have been shattered by the old gods, each time Claeyt made Jorb and Loftar break a keyboard in the past, and once we go through the many shifting objectives and gather sufficient whole bans we can vanquish Claeyt and inherit our characters as well as the then-industry, weed and other drugs, stuff which would help manage sanity and help change the moods and capabilities of our characters, ranging from chewing coca leaves for higher focus and productivity for a bit then withdrawal, to rudimentary indiginous versions of bath salts making you a monster in combat with some changed attacks and no defenses. If instead Claeyt manages to drive everyone off, providence gets 5x higher insanity gain and bloodmoons just set you at the madness level before death xD