Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Procne » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:26 am

gother44 wrote:
JohnCarver wrote:This game will always have a strong core in conflict. It sounds like you are lost and/or looking for something this game is never going to strive to be.

I try to say differently. This game have very complex and interesting mechanics for farmers, builders and explorers. For PvE-oriented communities (There are many such people in da world, ya!).
What you do? You say - we don't need all pizza, give us just this little piece, there are a big tomato on it, which we loved.

Actually, it's you asking for a small fragment of pizza. Conflict has always existed in the real world, and your example of peaceful farmers is just an example of concentrating on a small peace without looking at the whole image. Farmers want to live in peace and just grow the crops, yes. But it wouldn't be possible if not for government which provides security in form of law, police, firefighters etc. When you look at the whole image you will see that a farmer is just a small cog in country's industry, one that is necessary to feed people, including soldiers etc. Human history is based on "group up, abandon some freedom and get some security" principle.

And that's how it's in Salem too - game doesn't offer too many limitations and ultimately it's up to people to decide and enforce the rules. Want to play as peaceful farmer? Find some faction which, just like government, will offer you some protection in return for your goods. Or, raise an army / build defenses yourself if you don't want anyone else lording over you.

You would like to get rid of the tedious task of providing protection, and would like the game to do it for you, and at the same time remove all other pieces of pizza.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Claeyt » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:37 am

gother44 wrote:You don't think, that real farmer don't want to be robbed-killed at all?

A great player called 'The Mysterious Stranger' who was one of the first players I ever met in the game outside of some RL friends once told me:

"You are no longer a noob in Salem once you've been robbed, You are no longer a beginner in Salem once you've robbed someone else, and You have really only begun to play Salem once you have been killed." - The Mysterious Stranger

This was the best advice anyone has ever told me about why this game is great. The best part about this game is the thrill you get from the danger of losing months and months of character development just by stepping outside your gates. I'm one of the biggest carebears in the game and help TONS of noobs but I doubt I'd keep playing the game if it was only PvE. It should be incredibly hard (on Providence) to kill, loot or destroy someone's base and any victims of PvP should be able to get up, dust their old characters skeleton off, put out the villages fires and rebuild with a modest amount of effort. It's not always balanced but honestly this right now is the most balanced we've ever been imo. Hard Core PvP should be on the Expeditions, Soft Core PvP should be on Providence.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby gother44 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:10 pm

This is the difference between PvE-oriented people and others. Really peaceful man think:
- This game is cool, it would be great to make one server for home to pve-players where they can peacefully play and relax, and one server for pvp-players where they can exloit their conflicts.
PvP-players talks him:
- Why you need pve? You can pay for defense, you can make big party and try to defend together.

I don't ask to change providence to pve-mode. Gods, no. Just askin another world, pve-pure. Give people choice.

Claeyt wrote:I'm one of the biggest carebears in the game and help TONS of noobs but I doubt I'd keep playing the game if it was only PvE

So you have your reasons to play now. I have my reasons to not, others have their own reasons for make choice. So we have some pieces of pizza :D .

Why we play in games? We want to find fun, relaxing. And we adventuring, trying to go beyond the boundaries. Some people want to build something, some want to farm his gardens, some want to fight and resolve conflicts. Maybe "creators" is such narrow part of pizza, as griefers. Yes. But they NEVER will play in world where their creation can be easily destroyed as in Salem. So that's why you will not see here giant beautiful cities, roads of yellow bricks leading you to adventures, and friendly farmers on roadsides. Salem will never be prosperous without such category people.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Lusewing » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:45 pm

I am a very peaceful player. I spend my time farming and cooking. I have no interest in taking part in PVP.

But this game NEEDS PVP, even if it is just a background for you to live in. If you are using pizza as an example then PVP is the base - everything else is just toppings.
Without PVP you would have little reason to build walls.
The Darkness would be nothing more then a novelty as witchcraft would certainly not be included.
Going over 100 humors would achieve nothing as you could then kill and hunt the animals you needed. Which leads to no reason to glutton other then to remove food from your storage so you can farm and add more.

The PVP is the framework for the game. It provides the drive to keep improving yourself so you have the humors to try and fight if you need to. It is the danger that keeps you always working to improve your defenses.

PVP is not an aspect of the game that is always breathing down your neck. In two years I have only partially engaged in PVP two or three times. But it is an aspect of the game that is very important to every player.

As others have said, forming a group and putting thought and effort into your game play will quickly insure that you remain very safe and secure, though never so secure that your efforts become meaningless.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby gother44 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Lusewing wrote:I am a very peaceful player. I spend my time farming and cooking. I have no interest in taking part in PVP.

But this game NEEDS PVP, even if it is just a background for you to live in. If you are using pizza as an example then PVP is the base - everything else is just toppings.
Without PVP you would have little reason to build walls.

The Darkness would be nothing more then a novelty as witchcraft would certainly not be included.
Going over 100 humors would achieve nothing as you could then kill and hunt the animals you needed. Which leads to no reason to glutton other then to remove food from your storage so you can farm and add more.

The PVP is the framework for the game. It provides the drive to keep improving yourself so you have the humors to try and fight if you need to. It is the danger that keeps you always working to improve your defenses.

PVP is not an aspect of the game that is always breathing down your neck. In two years I have only partially engaged in PVP two or three times. But it is an aspect of the game that is very important to every player.

As others have said, forming a group and putting thought and effort into your game play will quickly insure that you remain very safe and secure, though never so secure that your efforts become meaningless.

Huh? Happy farm don't have reasons to make crops. Minecraft don't have reasons to make towns, castles, mechanisms... But it is very popular games. And people do there what they want. Doing great things without any pvp-whip. Yes, pvp give some stimul to play. But with it pvp give much more stimuls to NOT PLAY. Because PvP have core idea is conflict. Some people like to conflict. But much more people don't like it.
Why you have something against pve-server? People who like Salem in current stage will play on Providence as before. But with separate pve-server game will attract another people. It's bad? I think no.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Procne » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:01 pm

gother44 wrote:
Lusewing wrote:I am a very peaceful player. I spend my time farming and cooking. I have no interest in taking part in PVP.

But this game NEEDS PVP, even if it is just a background for you to live in. If you are using pizza as an example then PVP is the base - everything else is just toppings.
Without PVP you would have little reason to build walls.

The Darkness would be nothing more then a novelty as witchcraft would certainly not be included.
Going over 100 humors would achieve nothing as you could then kill and hunt the animals you needed. Which leads to no reason to glutton other then to remove food from your storage so you can farm and add more.

The PVP is the framework for the game. It provides the drive to keep improving yourself so you have the humors to try and fight if you need to. It is the danger that keeps you always working to improve your defenses.

PVP is not an aspect of the game that is always breathing down your neck. In two years I have only partially engaged in PVP two or three times. But it is an aspect of the game that is very important to every player.

As others have said, forming a group and putting thought and effort into your game play will quickly insure that you remain very safe and secure, though never so secure that your efforts become meaningless.

Huh? Happy farm don't have reasons to make crops. Minecraft don't have reasons to make towns, castles, mechanisms... But it is very popular games. And people do there what they want. Doing great things without any pvp-whip. Yes, pvp give some stimul to play. But with it pvp give much more stimuls to NOT PLAY. Because PvP have core idea is conflict. Some people like to conflict. But much more people don't like it.
Why you have something against pve-server? People who like Salem in current stage will play on Providence as before. But with separate pve-server game will attract another people. It's bad? I think no.

It's not a matter of whether it's bad or not. It's just that devs have no intention to make and supprt pve server. Look, this issue has been brought up many times over the years, by people using much better argumentation than you. Ultimately nothing has changed and it boils down to - if you can't live with the way pvp works in salem then you will have to look for a different game. If, however, you like building and crafting aspect so much that can't find anything better then you will have to endure, learn to protect yourself and just stay away from danger. Like in the real life.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Nsuidara » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:41 pm

Procne wrote:It's not a matter of whether it's bad or not. It's just that devs have no intention to make and supprt pve server. Look, this issue has been brought up many times over the years, by people using much better argumentation than you. Ultimately nothing has changed and it boils down to - if you can't live with the way pvp works in salem then you will have to look for a different game. If, however, you like building and crafting aspect so much that can't find anything better then you will have to endure, learn to protect yourself and just stay away from danger. Like in the real life.

For what all you cry ?

why is everyone crying...

because raidding is now hard ? is good... i hate broken people who wanna radding for easy (was before...)

why broken ? because player play HARD 2-3 weeks for build home... and ONE or TWO days all destroy / lose character and other ...

other player play months... many... and ONE person can hate other... and this hate person can easy radding... and destroy all in 2-3 days... NO! im isnt like this type game when i must play many months for do something.. and next day i die... because one person hate me and easy radding me...
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Procne » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:45 pm

Nsuidara wrote:
Procne wrote:It's not a matter of whether it's bad or not. It's just that devs have no intention to make and supprt pve server. Look, this issue has been brought up many times over the years, by people using much better argumentation than you. Ultimately nothing has changed and it boils down to - if you can't live with the way pvp works in salem then you will have to look for a different game. If, however, you like building and crafting aspect so much that can't find anything better then you will have to endure, learn to protect yourself and just stay away from danger. Like in the real life.

For what all you cry ?

why is everyone crying...

because raidding is now hard ? is good... i hate broken people who wanna radding for easy (was before...)

why broken ? because player play HARD 2-3 weeks for build home... and ONE or TWO days all destroy / lose character and other ...

other player play months... many... and ONE person can hate other... and this hate person can easy radding... and destroy all in 2-3 days... NO! im isnt like this type game when i must play many months for do something.. and next day i die... because one person hate me and easy radding me...

Why are you quoting me?
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby gother44 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:14 pm

Procne wrote:Look, this issue has been brought up many times over the years, by people using much better argumentation than you.

How do you think, why this people did that? Because Salem have unique and tasty mechanic and gameplay. But griefers and pvp-atmosphere close game for them.

Procne wrote:It's just that devs have no intention to make and supprt pve server

Why then in road map there was text about it? :P

Procne wrote: learn to protect yourself and just stay away from danger

in free-pvp server with perma-death there are no another way except meet you death or violence one day. As The Mysterious Stranger said higher on topic - "You are no longer a noob in Salem once you've been robbed, You are no longer a beginner in Salem once you've robbed someone else, and You have really only begun to play Salem once you have been killed."
So, this is the Wall, that stop some category of good people to play this game.

You say, that devs have no intention to make and support another server. That's a question. Why? Providence is not profitable? I don't know, but think it give some money for devs. But why then do not make another one with little changes? And easy increase income with this simple action.
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Re: Happy New Year! 2016 Road Mappish

Postby Procne » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:50 pm

gother44 wrote:
Procne wrote:It's just that devs have no intention to make and supprt pve server

Why then in road map there was text about it? :P
For people like you to know that there will be NO pve server. Have you noticed it's under a big "WILL NOT GO IN FOR 2016"?
Procne wrote: learn to protect yourself and just stay away from danger

in free-pvp server with perma-death there are no another way except meet you death or violence one day. As The Mysterious Stranger said higher on topic - "You are no longer a noob in Salem once you've been robbed, You are no longer a beginner in Salem once you've robbed someone else, and You have really only begun to play Salem once you have been killed."
So, this is the Wall, that stop some category of good people to play this game.
I'm not really sure what are you trying to say but it seems to me it's just another reiteration of "there are people who would play the game if there was no pvp". It's like beating the dead horse - it was said many times, and it's obvious and nobody is denying that.
You say, that devs have no intention to make and support another server. That's a question. Why? Providence is not profitable? I don't know, but think it give some money for devs. But why then do not make another one with little changes? And easy increase income with this simple action.

Well, because that's not a game they want to create, at least that was their stance till now. Also, it would take some effort, much more than you think. Removing perma death and stealing won't suddenly remove PvP. People will still find ways to annoy others and I'm pretty sure you would not be fine with that. So devs would have to tweak more mechanisms to minimize griefing and at some point they would have to higher GMs to start policing people like Darwoth. Then you would also have to run 2 servers which is an additional cost.
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