Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby JohnCarver » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:35 am

MaxPlanck wrote:I think they've decided to let us do this again because of the mortar release and the fact that mortars can take out trees.

Glad they changed it back though :3


Indeed.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby Flame » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:07 am

Yay!

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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby Dallane » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:06 pm

jcwilk wrote:
MaxPlanck wrote:because of the mortar


Ahhh good call, that pretty much nullifies tree walls as a defense tactic so it's not an issue anymore.


Its still a issue that you will have to be required to build a mortar no matter what if people start making tree walls again. There is still that much more you will need to do when raiding.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby jcwilk » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:27 pm

Dallane wrote:Its still a issue that you will have to be required to build a mortar no matter what if people start making tree walls again. There is still that much more you will need to do when raiding.


True, but the effort involved in making a tree wall is so vastly beyond that of making a mortar and you don't even need to wait for the TBF (presumably, right?) and it just takes one shot... If it's such an endgame base that there's nothing left to do except force raiders to build a mortar then the raiders presumably would have anyways to give them whatever edge they could get so it's really just one extra shot rather than one extra thing to build... Seems like a terrible payoff for the cost of a tree wall.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby jesi » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:34 pm

JohnCarver wrote:Mini Update #5
-------------------------------------------------
*Players may plant Trees and Bushes directly next to other trees, bushes, and structures.


And earlier in this thread JC said "*Trees now shatter to blocks when DIRECTLY falling onto things. Players standing directly under a tree will also take blood damage. I reserve the right to cause falling trees to damage your walls, houses, and bases in the future. Plan accordingly as if one day I do."

So did you decide to make it so trees falling on structures do damage to them?
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby Dallane » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:14 pm

jcwilk wrote:
Dallane wrote:Its still a issue that you will have to be required to build a mortar no matter what if people start making tree walls again. There is still that much more you will need to do when raiding.


True, but the effort involved in making a tree wall is so vastly beyond that of making a mortar and you don't even need to wait for the TBF (presumably, right?) and it just takes one shot... If it's such an endgame base that there's nothing left to do except force raiders to build a mortar then the raiders presumably would have anyways to give them whatever edge they could get so it's really just one extra shot rather than one extra thing to build... Seems like a terrible payoff for the cost of a tree wall.


I see that you have no idea how much effort it takes to raid someone so I'm going to ignore you from this point on. Planting a tree takes zero effort other than time, if you feel this is a grind then I know how little of this game you are playing.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby Flame » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:06 pm

But still, tree walls are more helpfull to raiders than defenders, due theyr splash damage.

Is a mortar shot + damaged wall not worth the effort of build a mortar?
And is a tree wall a wise way to defend yourself, when this becomes a knife against you with the right tool?

U that knows lot of raiding, can give an answer to this i think.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby TotalyMeow » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:58 pm

It should be obvious that a tree wall is not a good defense.
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby jcwilk » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:14 pm

Dallane wrote:Planting a tree takes zero effort other than time, if you feel this is a grind then I know how little of this game you are playing.


Lol, typical, but I'm not claiming to know all the minutia about endgame, however this is a rather simple mechanic.

It used to be that people actually had to wait for TBF and then stand under brazier fire and chop multiple trees down to even get at the wall, with mortars they have to fire once, maybe two or three times from a safe distance at the same time they initially erect their TBF unless the tree wall is so deep in the base it isn't even a loaded tile (much, much longer distance than visible tile). By the time the TBF is in effect and the braziers take their first shot the trees will be long gone.

So yes, tree planting compared to infiltrating a significant base is nothing, I never suggested otherwise. However, the added defense is reduced so drastically compared to what it used to be that my point is that there have to be other better uses of one's time. Walls take hours/days to break through under fire, a tree wall takes minutes without even being under brazier fire.

One situation that comes to mind where it could be somewhat significant is if it was in the center of the base in a non-visible tile so the raiders wouldn't know ahead of time that they need a mortar so it might slow them down a bit getting the resources together and/or building it in the right spot... Aside from that not really seeing why one would spend their time on it. Happy to hear counterarguments but go ahead, return to your mirror fapping :lol:

TotalyMeow wrote:It should be obvious that a tree wall is not a good defense.


I guess Dallane disagrees :roll:
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Re: Salem V1.1.6 The Crows Are Coming! The Crows Are Coming!

Postby TotalyMeow » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:28 pm

jcwilk wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:It should be obvious that a tree wall is not a good defense.


I guess Dallane disagrees :roll:


Well, he is right that raiders might be required to build mortars to raid. But if there is an active defender, they'll probably want to do that anyway and attempt to concuss him. It won't really matter in game for a defender to be concussed, but psychologically it could be an advantage. Carebears tend to freak out over things like that.

But what I'm saying is that the time it takes to build a tree wall compared to the time it takes to build a wall, and then the time it takes to destroy either of those even without mortars makes it much more efficient to build walls. Splash included, tree walls have not been a good idea for a long time ever since wall HP increased so dramatically.
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