Nubs are in Season

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: Nubs are in Season

Postby ShadowTani » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:58 am

Chrumps wrote:I might agree with opinion that someone paying for a game before trying it is dumb enough not to play this game.

They are, and I'm aware it probably provokes me more than it should because I'm an economist, but still, those who do this needs to be slapped! *sigh* If anything they could at least started off with the newbie pack - that's why games have them - it got everything you need for the first week/month (depending on your play frequency). It's only flaw at this point is that it lacks a teddybear in my opinion.

At least these people are most likely going to blow all that silver on the marked in the first few days anyway, so you can be reassured the likelihood of them finding and buying a dried rose is high at least. ;)

Still, I don't get what issue you imply people have that makes them not want to use the wiki's or the forums? Sandbox games always demanded that you play the game alongside a wiki; just because Salem is a MMO doesn't make it any less complex. I'm pretty sure most people are going to do some basic research themselves and try to ask for help before they start raging from frustration.

But either way, I don't think most of us are disagreeing when it comes to allowing the player to chose the tutorial whether they got the silver to skip it or not. That's reasonable enough. Getting free PP however, let's just say people don't like nice things around here. :P
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Re: Nubs are in Season

Postby Chrumps » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:14 pm

ShadowTani wrote: Getting free PP however, let's just say people don't like nice things around here. :P

But they do get free PP in the tutorial, just after giving a Tumbleweed to Nubs.
It probably dates back to H&H character creation room, where learning the basic skill with exp points given for free was a part of game introduction.

ShadowTani wrote: Still, I don't get what issue you imply people have that makes them not want to use the wiki's or the forums? ....

It takes some trial and error to hit the providence jump button and then find the stall with a dehydrated rose. That's quite harsh for a newbie.

Now, I found at least two people already had that issue:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13483&hilit=Learn+Childish+things
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Re: Nubs are in Season

Postby Zennoya » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:45 pm

ShadowTani wrote: Still, I don't get what issue you imply people have that makes them not want to use the wiki's or the forums? ....

About wiki -> salem-wiki.com doesnt work everywhere and dissappear from time to time. Salemwiki.info is not so up to date. Also You need at least some basic knowledge know what to search. Also if You search for Childish Things on wiki You get
"This skill is the first skill you learn while in the tutorial. It opens up the pathways to all other skills."

About forum -> Maybe because most people on the forum treat newbies as trash or retards, that are so stupid, that cant figure it out themselves, and if so, its better if they stop playing at all ?
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Re: Nubs are in Season

Postby ShadowTani » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:32 am

Chrumps wrote:
ShadowTani wrote: Getting free PP however, let's just say people don't like nice things around here. :P

But they do get free PP in the tutorial, just after giving a Tumbleweed to Nubs.
It probably dates back to H&H character creation room, where learning the basic skill with exp points given for free was a part of game introduction.

Don't make me start typing in blue please. It should been obvious I was making a sarcastic point. :P But I understand having alt-speed-bumpers is of no concern to you. But I personally do care and prefer a more moderate solution like the one Otis proposed and make the tutorial a choice whether you have the silver or not. Alternatively I'd go for the opposite extreme of what you're proposing and say that the devs should remove the option to skip the tutorial entirely and force everyone to go through the tutorial. But the moderate solution usually turns out to be the best solution.

Chump wrote:Now, I found at least two people already had that issue:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13483&hilit=Learn+Childish+things

Both being returning players that had silver from when they played earlier, which is actually not a common occurrence, just like nubs buying silver before they even tried the the game is a rare occurrence. You make the issue seem way bigger than it really is. And take note that one of these people is Otis, who is the same Otis who proposed the solution I'm supporting.

Zennoya wrote:About wiki -> salem-wiki.com doesnt work everywhere and dissappear from time to time. Salemwiki.info is not so up to date. Also You need at least some basic knowledge know what to search. Also if You search for Childish Things on wiki You get
"This skill is the first skill you learn while in the tutorial. It opens up the pathways to all other skills."

You're right the wiki situation is a bit tricky at the moment; the salem-wiki is obsolete now as the tribe-wiki have now been moved to a new server and thesalemwiki.com is now the correct destination; dunno if the various clients been updated accordingly, but it's possible they haven't (can't check atm). However, salemwiki.info have been overhauled a lot over the last couple of months and things like the skills and such is now fully updated. Still, despite a bit of disorder currently, it's not impossible to find either of these wiki's given a bit of effort.

Personally it would been most logical for for me to go to the Perennial Philosophy page and clicked through the items on the list in search for something suitable to study. But I don't necessarily believe what's logical or even obvious for me is so for someone else; thus I've added a note to Childish Things as a damage control of sorts: Click to Check Updated Page

If you have other suggestions for making the wiki more user-friendly, please let me know.

Zennoya wrote:About forum -> Maybe because most people on the forum treat newbies as trash or retards, that are so stupid, that cant figure it out themselves, and if so, its better if they stop playing at all ?

I can understand if people may get demotivated if they base their impression on the forum overall. However, in the help section specifically people actually try to be helpful and friendly. The community isn't entirely rotten to the core. Yet. :P
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Re: Nubs are in Season

Postby Chrumps » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:01 am

ShadowTani wrote:Don't make me start typing in blue please. It should been obvious I was making a sarcastic point. :P But I understand having alt-speed-bumpers is of no concern to you. But I personally do care and prefer a more moderate solution like the one Otis proposed and make the tutorial a choice whether you have the silver or not. Alternatively I'd go for the opposite extreme of what you're proposing and say that the devs should remove the option to skip the tutorial entirely and force everyone to go through the tutorial. But the moderate solution usually turns out to be the best solution.

The tutorial is so quick it it is really no reason to skip it even when creating a normal alt, it is even handy. Also I am little concerned about creating alts at all. I have ton of them already.
I noticed the problem when I tried to write a walkthrough for the newb island, and because I used wrong account at first I ended losing 200s and having an alt useless for the intended purpose.

ShadowTani wrote:Personally it would been most logical for for me to go to the Perennial Philosophy page and clicked through the items on the list in search for something suitable to study. But I don't necessarily believe what's logical or even obvious for me is so for someone else; thus I've added a note to Childish Things as a damage control of sorts: Click to Check Updated Page

Probably the best workaround available atm. Thanks.
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