I Saw some Tools

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby TotalyMeow » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:10 pm

pestilence123 wrote:I certainly understand that the developers want the money, but that money could be obtained in another way such as a small monthly fee from each player. Now we get that the one who pays the wins. When you start selling swords with double damage for just $ 9.99 and resurrection potion for $ 49.99?


You're trying to use a slippery slope argument here and it's not going to work. John has stated many times that Salem will not be 'pay to win'. Shop items will save you some time or make your character look cool, but they won't give you a huge advantage.

Take your complaint against the brand new saws for example. John has already said there will be higher tier crafted saws released later that will come closer to store bought speed. As it is, I think the stone saw is faster right now than the axe was before. He just didn't want to make you wait until October for a mechanic he promised, but didn't quite have time to put in the September patch.
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby KruskDaMangled » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:28 pm

pestilence123 wrote:
Tammer wrote:There's a difference between Pay to Do Stuff Faster and Pay to Win.

While I make 40 boards with a stone saw, someone will make 80 boards with a hand saw. So he would build fence two times faster than me. Someone with a rolling pin and hunting knives will produce twice as much food for the same time etc.


I'm personally only salty about the Rolling Pin, and only then because the current incarnation is pay only, when it is clearly within the capabilities of our characters to make at least one or two sub optimal tiers of less good ones. I've read about it in history books and journals too, about gutsy pioneer school teachers who wanted one, and made it out of pieces of pine wood from in the yard. (And the woman in question wasn't even a very good carver, she had just watched her father and brothers do it all her life.)

And have you tried the new saw? I mean sure, it is painful that someone can do it that much faster than a body, but in my experience, it's very tolerable the way it is now. I got the mats for a split rail fence starter corner with very little fuss and without the previously painful investment in phelgm and time. It's better now, even with a crummy stone saw. Anyone dedicated enough to BUY the better saw, well, you can steal that saw (or whatever they leave so they can alt vault it) when you break in their cute little Split Rail defended claim. Most people who would consider buying anything in my experience and have sense, already have better walls, or aspire to them.

And again, you butcher meat at an alarming rate with a butcher knife. It's kind of nuts. The real bottle neck is more the time to hunt animals and haul carcasses, not the dumb knife. Both in my previous village and the current one we honestly had the capacity to hunt more animals than we even needed due to storage. Being twice as fast at deboning all that meat is nice, but they still run into "Whycan'tIholdAllTheseBearSteaks?" like everyone else. Faster, even.

TLDR the improvements on speed for somethings are very acceptable in my opinion for normal stuff, and the "even faster" stuff doesn't by necessity make you a super Pilgrim who's doing twice as much work, both because you might not even want or need to do that work, or because you could, but your capacity to even benefit from it is tempered by other factors like storage which remain equal across the community.
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby Gacrux » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:49 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:
pestilence123 wrote:I certainly understand that the developers want the money, but that money could be obtained in another way such as a small monthly fee from each player. Now we get that the one who pays the wins. When you start selling swords with double damage for just $ 9.99 and resurrection potion for $ 49.99?


You're trying to use a slippery slope argument here and it's not going to work.


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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby Procne » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:27 pm

JohnCarver wrote:*Dry Boards have been moisturized with Procne's tears and are now less grey
[/i]

I can provide some other liquid to make them more yellow ¦]
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby CINAR » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:52 pm

:idea: :idea: Hey JC.. What about a new item : WALL TORCH for placing on the walls of our mines and enlighten inside or the shafts that we dig for pure boulders? but if you do that please make them replenished by coal or wood etc like stoves... please :) :P :idea: :idea:
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby JohnCarver » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:58 am

lachlaan wrote:By the way, could you possibly implement some sort of blade-swapping mechanic for the fancy swords as well? A bit like the new butchering dagger. As people have mentioned, nobleman's rapiers are pretty useless now that swords have purity.

Also yeah, Rolling pin and Hand saw, none of that pitchforky nonsense! And I'm happy with the butchering knife for now :D


Yes I have plans to implement a system so the swords in the Mystery Chest are back up to par with Sabres.

CINAR wrote::idea: :idea: Hey JC.. What about a new item : WALL TORCH for placing on the walls of our mines and enlighten inside or the shafts that we dig for pure boulders? but if you do that please make them replenished by coal or wood etc like stoves... please :) :P :idea: :idea:


Yes we have plants to implement light solutions to mines. I suppose it makes a store solution although I'm not entirely sure. Our store solution was going to be a lantern, which is a much longer torch.
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby Cheena » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:12 am

pestilence123 wrote:While I make 40 boards with a stone saw, someone will make 80 boards with a hand saw. So he would build fence two times faster than me. Someone with a rolling pin and hunting knives will produce twice as much food for the same time etc.


Excuse me, but I lol'd. Let's take concreet exemples there's nothing better... I have a stone saw and you get a metal one. It'll take me two hours to saw the boards for my split rail fence. It'll take you 24 minutes. Do you think, very honestly, that it'll make you "win" anything over me ? I'll only have my crappy fence done one hour and 36 minutes after yours. Well in that meantime if I have a raider I'm *****, but honestly I'll be ***** anyway with that split rail fence and so would you.
Now I really hope that you're not talking about a plank wall, because well, you know. Even if I start my timber piles one hour and 36 minutes after yours, they'll still be done one hour and 36 minutes after yours and that's not twice longer. I'll still have my plank wall done one freaking hour and 36 minutes after you. How is that pay to win ? -_-

Anyway I can have the same efficiency as that dude with his metal saw if I want. I just have to call 4 buddies to do that same job he can do all alone. Pay to win would be if I had no choice or solution.
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby JohnCarver » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:27 am

I would go a step further even and say that pay to win would be items, loot, and goods that you otherwise couldn't get in the game. Players are free to beg, borrow, and steal store items from each other as well as just purchase them from each other in Boston. Just an hour ago somebody was selling two mystery toolboxes for silver.

Expect sympathy from me if the store sells bind on account items that you cannot otherwise get without opening your wallet. Other than that, Pay2GrindLess, Pay2LoseLess, and Pay2Grief models are incoming.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby Cheena » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:34 am

Pay to Grief !?!
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Re: I Saw some Tools

Postby Procne » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:37 am

Pay2GrindLess may become pay2win if the game becomes very competitive. When major factions start relying on cash shop items to boost their efficiency in certain areas of the game allowing them to progress faster and further, making it impossible to catch up to them without spending cash.

Think of faction of 5 Biddases, playing 24/7 pushing all the limits and then buying stuff that makes them even more efficient. Level of efficiency surpassing whatever is possible without cash shop items. We're not anywhere close to that I believe.

In short, pay2win is both when you can win simply by paying, and when you have to pay to have a chance at winning.
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