A Brave New Salem

[Feone]

I have in mind one thing is also from the experiences of other MMOs. They should add a sort of safety-time, which allows you to be sure not to get killed. and maybe adding this security package as the object of purchase! sorry for my english

Buying absolute security is the very definition of pay to win.

I want to get insureance in game so i can insure my snakeskulls

Yes.

You pay silver daily as insurance. Then when you lose a skull you get back an arrowhead because the insurance has decided it's of equal value due to the aging of the original item.
Only if the investigator determines you lost it legitly, though!

[Mereni]

This is like saying that all first person shooters should have a strong crafting element

That is not an applicable example. Your example is meant to show the absurdity of a function within context of a place it should not be. Living peacefully with your neighbors is not absurd. Murdering them all and burning their houses down, I would venture to say, was at the very least not the status quo of settler life, in general.

I would further claim, doing so—murdering and razing within your community—is absurd, that is, contrary to reason and common sense—not that murdering and razing outside of one's community is any less absurd.

For such activity, modern day, you would be apprehended and put to death by enforcers of the law. In Salem's time, I'm not sure how it would play out. Maybe if I knew more about their system of crime and punishment... But I will digress into a possible scenario:

You arrive at the New World by boat. You disembark and disembowel everyone there, burning down any structure you don't claim. If any other boats arrive, you murder all who come ashore from them, as well. This means the entire crew, too, for it is unlikely they would have enough supplies still on board for the return trip. Where does this leave you? Any correspondence or trade the slain were meant to send back to Europe never arrive, obviously. And the boats themselves, possibly heavy investments from others in the Old World, never return. Will boats continue to come? Who will be on the new boats? Anxious relatives of the slain? Curious and upset ship owners or trade merchants? Eventually an armed force of men? Maybe that last one is a stretch. Maybe the boats will just dock somewhere else and avoid you, their passengers banding together to build a home and a community, to struggle against the harsh new wilderness they are unprepared for—you know, PvE!

Or that all MMORPGs should have terraforming because some people want to manipulate the terrain and not do quests at all

This time, you are making the error of saying "all MMORPGs". This is a common logical fallacy known as "composition/division"—where if something applies to one part of a whole, it must apply to all parts of the whole. I wasn't making that claim. I wasn't saying all games should have every functionality to suit everyone's tastes.

Of course there are limitations! You cannot include all activities into any one game—unless it's Calvin Ball. However, including living peacefully and/or cooperatively in Salem is within the capabilities of the system. It is not so far fetched to be impossible. And for some it is even preferable.

PvP is the main draw of the game.

That may be true for you, and I'll go ahead and say it may be the main draw for others, but it is certainly not the main draw for everyone. It wasn't for me. And I will assert I am not alone in this thinking, as a quick perusal of these forums will attest to. When I signed up for this game, it was touted as the Crafting MMO, not the Murder & Raze MMO.

My dear, this game is a survival one with crafting features, a survival game without the death feature is just senseless.

I completely agree! I am all for surviving in harsh, natural wilderness and for permanent death. This is also a feature which drew me to Salem. ^_^

It's amusing how you quote my arguments and then spent huge paragraphs arguing about things I didn't say that have nothing to do with anything. The point I was making was that Salem shouldn't have to try to cater to everyone by completely changing it's mechanics to include PvE. Someone playing Salem with no chance of being murdered by another player is no longer in a survival game. Even you yourself said you like the survival element, so why are you arguing against it?

You mention it being called the Crafting MMO. Sorry to break this to you, but that was a slogan put in by Paradox, who are completely gone now. Salem was never meant to have crafting as it's primary element. Crafting and Terraforming are major game mechanics and it wouldn't be Salem without them, but the core of the game revolves around protecting the things you have made from others or trying to steal the things others have made. You just can't make that optional.

[troubleis]

but a pure pve server seems meaningless to me.

Different folks, different strokes. PvE is fun for some. PvP is fun for some. It's okay that way. You can like both or just one—or I guess neither if you're not a gamer.

Why not attract PvE and PvP players both by giving PvE players a little more safety while making unwelcomed harassment from PvP players still possible?

Optionally, instead of unwelcomed harassment, try welcomed harassment—let PvP players fight PvP players and leave PvE players out of it.

Telling PvE players they have to play the game your way—the PvP way—can greatly detract from the fun of the game.

Group A wants to play nice with everyone.
Group B wants to kill all their neighbors and raze their homes.
In real life, what kept the people of Salem in Group A and not in Group B? Religion, morals, and punishment of crimes. This game greatly lacks the first and last. Morals are distinct from person to person. The latter—criminal justice—seems an interesting deterrent to explore. Where are the militiamen to protect townsfolk and villagers from the unknown wilds and the threats from within?

I'm possibly advocating, but definitely philosophizing.

I would play on a PvE server and never look back.

First off I want to say although I don't do much PVP I still love the full loot permadeath aspect of this game. I do believe there should be more protection for those who don't want to participate in PVP, while still having the threat of being killed at anytime a very real possibility. Without the fear of permadeath, the game changes quite a lot, and not for the better in my opinion. The idea of militiamen is an interesting idea, they could sign up in Boston to be militiamen, where they gain the ability to kill anyone with a criminal debuff while incurring no penalties themselves. Militiamen would be unable to engage in PVP with anyone without a criminal debuff. Another idea would be to start a bounty system similar to what's in EVE. Another idea could be to implement a criminal/vigilante system similar to what they use in Ashen Empires ( or at least they used to, its been a while since i played). In that system the more crimes you commit the more criminal you become, on a semi permanent basis. VERY slowly your criminal meter goes back to good. Vigilantes (people without a criminal history) can freely attack criminals, but if they attack other vigilantes then they become criminals. That game had separate towns for criminals and vigilantes, because the guards would attack you if you weren't the correct alignment. Although I'm not sure that we should split up the already small player base with separate towns, but its just something to consider. While I believe in full PVP, I think it's a bit too chaotic, especially for the new players.

[Dallane]

I do believe there should be more protection for those who don't want to participate in PVP, while still having the threat of being killed at anytime a very real possibility.

Its called a brazier..are you playing salem at all?

The idea of militiamen is an interesting idea, they could sign up in Boston to be militiamen, where they gain the ability to kill anyone with a criminal debuff while incurring no penalties themselves. Militiamen would be unable to engage in PVP with anyone without a criminal debuff.

Terrible

Another idea would be to start a bounty system similar to what's in EVE.

People will just collect on their own bounty

Another idea could be to implement a criminal/vigilante system similar to what they use in Ashen Empires ( or at least they used to, its been a while since i played). In that system the more crimes you commit the more criminal you become, on a semi permanent basis. VERY slowly your criminal meter goes back to good. Vigilantes (people without a criminal history) can freely attack criminals, but if they attack other vigilantes then they become criminals. That game had separate towns for criminals and vigilantes, because the guards would attack you if you weren't the correct alignment. Although I'm not sure that we should split up the already small player base with separate towns, but its just something to consider. While I believe in full PVP, I think it's a bit too chaotic, especially for the new players.

Doesn't fit in with the faction play here.

[Jack]

Salem shouldn't have to try to cater to everyone by completely changing it's mechanics to include PvE.

Anyone who fights a cricket, bear, bunny, etc. or goes searching for resources to craft an item is engaging in Player versus Environment. What is your definition of PvE?

Someone playing Salem with no chance of being murdered by another player is no longer in a survival game.

I disagree. Surviving doesn't imply player-killing. To survive is to continue living after the occurrence of some event. If you stumble off a cliff or get caught in a mineshaft cave-in, you should die. If a bear doesn't maul you to death, you are lucky. If you escape from a pack of hungry wolves, you are fortunate... or faster than your traveling companions. I would not be against adding more aggressive predators to Salem, and not euphemistically.

Even you yourself said you like the survival element, so why are you arguing against it?

I am not arguing against the survival element. I am against arbitrary murder. See above.

You mention it being called the Crafting MMO. Sorry to break this to you, but that was a slogan put in by Paradox, who are completely gone now.

That does not invalidate my claim that at the time of my registering it was called the Crafting MMO.

Salem was never meant to have crafting as it's primary element.

Where is your proof of this?

As it was originally referred to as the Crafting MMO, I would be inclined to disagree with you.

the core of the game revolves around protecting the things you have made from others or trying to steal the things others have made. You just can't make that optional.

This sounds more like your opinion, but if you can provide some evidence other than a bandwagon logical fallacy, I will listen. Let me reiterate, though, that without any PvE in this game, PvP would be relegated to fisticuffs in starting gear.

This game would still be entertaining on a PvE server. If it's the only way to escape murderous neighbors, then let there be a PvP server and a PvE server, the only difference being the PvE server has attacking other players toggled off, so to speak. If every server must have PvP as you insist, then make it consensual, only for designated regions, or have some sort of legal repercussion—such as wanted posters with bounties or excommunication from civilized society or something else I don't have the inspiration to come up with at the moment.

First off I want to say although I don't do much PVP I still love the full loot permadeath aspect of this game. I do believe there should be more protection for those who don't want to participate in PVP, while still having the threat of being killed at anytime a very real possibility. Without the fear of permadeath, the game changes quite a lot, and not for the better in my opinion. The idea of militiamen is an interesting idea, they could sign up in Boston to be militiamen, where they gain the ability to kill anyone with a criminal debuff while incurring no penalties themselves. Militiamen would be unable to engage in PVP with anyone without a criminal debuff. Another idea would be to start a bounty system similar to what's in EVE. Another idea could be to implement a criminal/vigilante system similar to what they use in Ashen Empires ( or at least they used to, its been a while since i played). In that system the more crimes you commit the more criminal you become, on a semi permanent basis. VERY slowly your criminal meter goes back to good. Vigilantes (people without a criminal history) can freely attack criminals, but if they attack other vigilantes then they become criminals. That game had separate towns for criminals and vigilantes, because the guards would attack you if you weren't the correct alignment. Although I'm not sure that we should split up the already small player base with separate towns, but its just something to consider. While I believe in full PVP, I think it's a bit too chaotic, especially for the new players.

You have some thought-provoking ideas, and I agree with a lot of what you say. The bounty setup could work maybe. I like the thought of wanted posters placed around town, stating who, how much, any accomplices, and their suspected or known location. Though I'm not sure about having two separate factional towns based on the proliferation of one's criminal activity. That is possibly more divisive than murdering your fellow settlers.

[Dallane]

Simple Jack you may want to do some research in this game.

[Banok]

before you instantly dismiss "carebear" ideas like militia. remember that in haven they obviously tried to make a system where pkers had more skill loss than peaceful players, they failed completely but thats not the point. I believe somewhere deep down in the recesses of the jorbtar's mind is some form of empathy for the non-pker, and desire to make playing a pker more difficult.

[Dallane]

they obviously tried to make a system where pkers had more skill loss than peaceful players,

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Horis]

These are all great ideas. I really enjoy that players are opening up and being creative instead I the usual one line insults and negative comments without much thought.

[Voltaire1512]

These are all great ideas. I really enjoy that players are opening up and being creative instead I the usual one line insults and negative comments without much thought.

Ignore-list is a good way to eliminate one-liners and focus on the discussion.