A Brave New Salem

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Dallane » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:23 am

ElCapitan1701 wrote:
Mereni wrote:Otherwise, this game just isn't going to be for everyone. I don't play FPS because they're just not for me. Some people are going to try Salem, realize it's not for them, and not play. That's fine, but for those of us who like a dangerous, permadeath, open pvp, full loot, crafting game, at least we'll have this ONE game to play in and there are surely a few thousand others in the billions who have internet access on this planet who will also like this game once it's reached a releasable state.

Yeah, atm there are 82 players thinking like you, and I don`t know, how many players tried Salem once. Maybe the new devs should have a look to the numbers, I`m sure they are somewhere. If there is a financial concept working with less than 2-3 thousand players - fine. I wish Salem to be the game of your dreams. But if not, Salem will fail again and you and I won`t have the game of our dreams.


>he doesn't know salem was designed to be a niche game
>he doesn't know how salem works
>he actually thinks permadeath has a affect on the populated rather then lack of dev attention and no end game.

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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Jack » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:58 am

Inotdead wrote:but a pure pve server seems meaningless to me.


Different folks, different strokes. PvE is fun for some. PvP is fun for some. It's okay that way. You can like both or just one—or I guess neither if you're not a gamer.

Why not attract PvE and PvP players both by giving PvE players a little more safety while making unwelcomed harassment from PvP players still possible?

Optionally, instead of unwelcomed harassment, try welcomed harassment—let PvP players fight PvP players and leave PvE players out of it.

Telling PvE players they have to play the game your way—the PvP way—can greatly detract from the fun of the game.

Group A wants to play nice with everyone.
Group B wants to kill all their neighbors and raze their homes.
In real life, what kept the people of Salem in Group A and not in Group B? Religion, morals, and punishment of crimes. This game greatly lacks the first and last. Morals are distinct from person to person. The latter—criminal justice—seems an interesting deterrent to explore. Where are the militiamen to protect townsfolk and villagers from the unknown wilds and the threats from within?

I'm possibly advocating, but definitely philosophizing.

I would play on a PvE server and never look back.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Dallane » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:05 am

Jack wrote:I would play on a PvE server and never look back.


Please leave Simple Jack
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Mereni » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:06 am

Jack wrote:
Inotdead wrote:but a pure pve server seems meaningless to me.


Different folks, different strokes. PvE is fun for some. PvP is fun for some. It's okay that way. You can like both or just one—or I guess neither if you're not a gamer.

Why not attract PvE and PvP players both by giving PvE players a little more safety while making unwelcomed harassment from PvP players still possible?

Optionally, instead of unwelcomed harassment, try welcomed harassment—let PvP players fight PvP players and leave PvE players out of it.

Telling PvE players they have to play the game your way—the PvP way—can greatly detract from the fun of the game.

Group A wants to play nice with everyone.
Group B wants to kill all their neighbors and raze their homes.
In real life, what kept the people of Salem in Group A and not in Group B? Religion, morals, and punishment of crimes. This game greatly lacks the first and last. Morals are distinct from person to person. The latter—criminal justice—seems an interesting deterrent to explore. Where are the militiamen to protect townsfolk and villagers from the unknown wilds and the threats from within?

I'm possibly advocating, but definitely philosophizing.

I would play on a PvE server and never look back.


This is like saying that all first person shooters should have a strong crafting element, because some people would rather do that and not shoot anyone at all. Or that all MMORPGs should have terraforming because some people want to manipulate the terrain and not do quests at all. There is no good way to have PvP be optional in a game where PvP is the main draw of the game.

If Group A wants to play nice with everyone, they better find a strong PvP group to shelter under because that's the only option this game is designed to have for noncombatants, and it's the only one it Should have.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby alagar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:52 am

Jack wrote:
Inotdead wrote:but a pure pve server seems meaningless to me.


Different folks, different strokes. PvE is fun for some. PvP is fun for some. It's okay that way. You can like both or just one—or I guess neither if you're not a gamer.

Why not attract PvE and PvP players both by giving PvE players a little more safety while making unwelcomed harassment from PvP players still possible?

Optionally, instead of unwelcomed harassment, try welcomed harassment—let PvP players fight PvP players and leave PvE players out of it.

Telling PvE players they have to play the game your way—the PvP way—can greatly detract from the fun of the game.

Group A wants to play nice with everyone.
Group B wants to kill all their neighbors and raze their homes.
In real life, what kept the people of Salem in Group A and not in Group B? Religion, morals, and punishment of crimes. This game greatly lacks the first and last. Morals are distinct from person to person. The latter—criminal justice—seems an interesting deterrent to explore. Where are the militiamen to protect townsfolk and villagers from the unknown wilds and the threats from within?

I'm possibly advocating, but definitely philosophizing.

I would play on a PvE server and never look back.


My dear, this game is a survival one with crafting features, a survival game without the death feature is just senseless.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Jack » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:21 am

Mereni wrote:This is like saying that all first person shooters should have a strong crafting element


That is not an applicable example. Your example is meant to show the absurdity of a function within context of a place it should not be. Living peacefully with your neighbors is not absurd. Murdering them all and burning their houses down, I would venture to say, was at the very least not the status quo of settler life, in general. I would further claim, doing so—murdering and razing within your community—is absurd, that is, contrary to reason and common sense—not that murdering and razing outside of one's community is any less absurd.

For such activity, modern day, you would be apprehended and put to death by enforcers of the law. In Salem's time, I'm not sure how it would play out. Maybe if I knew more about their system of crime and punishment... But I will digress into a possible scenario:

You arrive at the New World by boat. You disembark and disembowel everyone there, burning down any structure you don't claim. If any other boats arrive, you murder all who come ashore from them, as well. This means the entire crew, too, for it is unlikely they would have enough supplies still on board for the return trip. Where does this leave you? Any correspondence or trade the slain were meant to send back to Europe never arrive, obviously. And the boats themselves, possibly heavy investments from others in the Old World, never return. Will boats continue to come? Who will be on the new boats? Anxious relatives of the slain? Curious and upset ship owners or trade merchants? Eventually an armed force of men? Maybe that last one is a stretch. Maybe the boats will just dock somewhere else and avoid you, their passengers banding together to build a home and a community, to struggle against the harsh new wilderness they are unprepared for—you know, PvE!

Mereni wrote:Or that all MMORPGs should have terraforming because some people want to manipulate the terrain and not do quests at all.


This time, you are making the error of saying "all MMORPGs". This is a common logical fallacy known as "composition/division"—where if something applies to one part of a whole, it must apply to all parts of the whole. I wasn't making that claim. I wasn't saying all games should have every functionality to suit everyone's tastes.

Of course there are limitations! You cannot include all activities into any one game—unless it's Calvin Ball. However, including living peacefully and/or cooperatively in Salem is within the capabilities of the system. It is not so far fetched to be impossible. And for some it is even preferable.

Mereni wrote:PvP is the main draw of the game.


That may be true for you, and I'll go ahead and say it may be the main draw for others, but it is certainly not the main draw for everyone. It wasn't for me. And I will assert I am not alone in this thinking, as a quick perusal of these forums will attest to. When I signed up for this game, it was touted as the Crafting MMO, not the Murder & Raze MMO.

alagar wrote:My dear, this game is a survival one with crafting features, a survival game without the death feature is just senseless.


I completely agree! I am all for surviving in harsh, natural wilderness and for permanent death. This is also a feature which drew me to Salem. ^_^
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby neored9 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:06 am

I ***** *****, how will the game change for me?
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby bokido » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:10 am

I have in mind one thing is also from the experiences of other MMOs. They should add a sort of safety-time, which allows you to be sure not to get killed. and maybe adding this security package as the object of purchase! sorry for my english
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Feone » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:55 am

bokido wrote:I have in mind one thing is also from the experiences of other MMOs. They should add a sort of safety-time, which allows you to be sure not to get killed. and maybe adding this security package as the object of purchase! sorry for my english


Buying absolute security is the very definition of pay to win.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby vienradzis » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:25 am

Feone wrote:
bokido wrote:I have in mind one thing is also from the experiences of other MMOs. They should add a sort of safety-time, which allows you to be sure not to get killed. and maybe adding this security package as the object of purchase! sorry for my english


Buying absolute security is the very definition of pay to win.


I want to get insureance in game so i can insure my snakeskulls :)
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