plz block the maping tools

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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby MagicManICT » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Steve wrote:I would agree with the idea to block maps made by 3rd parties. Whether it's possible with the way Salem is programmed I don't know.


We have determined that, no, it is not possible.

Here's the options: Embrace third party maps so that all can share the same data

OR

Block public sites hosting these and try (notice I say try) to do something to the client to make it harder to produce these. This will mean that you end up with village specific maps that only a select few can browse and leaves the average player clueless as to who their neighbors are.

Wouldn't you rather know who your neighbor is in case they're hostile (or even protective and someone to turn to in case of need)?
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby APXEOLOG » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:10 pm

MagicManICT wrote:Block public sites hosting these

There just will be private maps, like it is in HnH.
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby MagicManICT » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:16 pm

APXEOLOG wrote:
MagicManICT wrote:Block public sites hosting these

There just will be private maps, like it is in HnH.


Exactly. That was the point of the rest of that line.
MagicManICT wrote:This will mean that you end up with village specific maps that only a select few can browse and leaves the average player clueless as to who their neighbors are.


Just like, if they try to prevent people from modding the client (and create tools to try and detect these things), there would still be villages that use modded clients with giant advantages over others.
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby Ass_Kraken » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:11 am

I have to agree with MagicManICT, headbutting third party software directly is what loftar would never do, it is boring, counter productive, wastes time, and is impossible. Fixing the mechanic and making it so the map system isn't complete crap that you get lost walking 2-3 minimaps without 3rd party maps is a far better thing.
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby MvGulik » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Kinda boring topic. ("Please kill off <name> feature because bad(subjective) players use it for bad(subjective) things. As I rather like to play this game with a false sense of security than a true sense of the risks.")

Think the "Not possible to prevent world mapping" part is already covered. And making it harder will not do that much either. (except maybe making it easier for users(the noob-kind I think) to believe in that "false sens of security" part.)

Option I have not seen yet:
Pester dev's about releasing the virgin world map(s).
- If used as static map (never updated), your world altering activities are save from prying eyes (not).
-- (None static map) Full world-map release would probably kill off most of the motivation of general world mappers to do there mapping. (accept of course by those that like to know whats around for some raiding fun, but those will probably just use local generate maps. As they probably don't like to share there potential resource to the competition.) Ergo: Will probably, in practice, be a static map in nature.
-- Would not show the general world changes. So, depending on this game terraforming features, that map will become more outdated over time. (Assuming slow terraforming rate, that would mean a long time.)

... Have fun ...

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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby Qukatt » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:27 pm

Ok so:

1/ the world map project is fuelled by the users sending in their map data. if you wish your tile where your place is to stay "clean" then you need to take the tile from your map saving file and delete it before you send the data. it will NOT show up when the world map gets updated.

2/ You can send this map data from the vanilla client as well as the BD and Ender ones, it's nothing to do with the custom clients.

3/ You could keep old tiles of where you built in a separate folder and send them in if you see another pilgrim has mapped your area and updated the world to reset them. It's also perhaps an idea you can give Greyrat the co-ords of your place and request that the tile there doesn't update. However people will see this empty tile and go "there! we can build there! Next to that very cool looking lime deposit/swamp/beach!" and you'll end up getting neighbours regardless.

4/ the old world mapping project could zoom in a hell of a lot more in greater detail. be glad this map project doesn't have that crazy accuracy yet :D
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby sabinati » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:46 pm

actually vanilla doesn't save the tiles. it just makes them. maybe they are in cache somehow but idk.
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby mrnuggets » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:27 am

This is really a case of: the rules should crystal clear and be the same for everyone from the start.

It's the same thing with custom clients in general. Ender's and Apxeolog's clients are great, I couldn't do without them, just like most of us here. They are great works, experimental, and many of their features will be implemented in the final vanilla client, I think. :)

But as long as there are people unaware of these custom clients' existence, those who only play with the vanilla one are, in many ways, at a disadvantage.

Same thing with maps/mapping tools. As long as it's clear from the start that these mapping tools exist, and everyone understands how to use them, then there's no real advantage/disadvantage in using them. The rules are the same for everyone. No one would have reason to say:"This dude saw my place on the map and looted me." Well, you could just have found and looted his place all the same with said map tools. As long as his place is there already on the world map. ;)
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:19 pm

mrnuggets wrote:many of their features will be implemented in the final vanilla client, I think. :)


Don't know where you got this idea at, but probably not.

mrnuggets wrote:Same thing with maps/mapping tools. As long as it's clear from the start that these mapping tools exist, and everyone understands how to use them, then there's no real advantage/disadvantage in using them. The rules are the same for everyone. No one would have reason to say:"This dude saw my place on the map and looted me." Well, you could just have found and looted his place all the same with said map tools. As long as his place is there already on the world map.


Exactly. Not only that, but the player that was raided can track the perp down and provide an exact location to where their camp is.

It would be wonderful if we just had a daily dump of the map to a project like this directly from the server. Or an API that anyone that made a map could use to poll the server and get chunks of data every so often.
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Re: plz block the maping tools

Postby mrnuggets » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:17 pm

MagicManICT wrote:Don't know where you got this idea at, but probably not.


Nowhere. I just thought, since the experience is so much different if you play vanilla vs custom clients, that they would be looking at how people play and what they like within the clients so they'd implement it.
It is so much easier to play with custom clients. It feels like a different game with the vanilla client, harder but immersive and satisfying.

It was a wild guess and I was wrong.
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