Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby Arillious » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:27 pm

MagicManICT wrote:
Arillious wrote:I'm recommending that [...] tutorials in strategic points of the game would be helpful.


Guess it does need to be pointed out: These exist. If something specific is confusing or is lacking, point it out and say what, exactly, needs to be added.


I'm aware there are short tutorials at the very beginning.

My specific recommendations to this point are:

Minor tutorial regarding fencing the first time someone builds a fence.
The sawbuck when right clicked should indicate that a fresh tree should be placed there in some way.

To Tonkyhonk, its obvious we are on two different sides of this arguement. You keep using fallacious arguments(straw man) to argue against me. It's hard to have a real conversation when you keep doing this. I don't think anything I've suggested would dumb down the game or even make it easier. It would simply stop players from wasting time escaping out the game to look at tutorials.

Not responding to Painhertz under the assumption he is still sore from past events and he is not capable of letting that go(pretty obvious by his first reply in this post).

Happy to hear thoughts from other players on this.
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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby Sevenless » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:41 pm

This is a small dev team. What the devs don't have time for, the community has and can continue to help out with. A tutorial on fencing is actually easier to do via youtube video than it would be to show in game.

Try approaching Eegore and GamerZahk about it.
It's been neat to see the evolution of a game. Salem has come so far, and still has far to go. Although frustrating, I think it's been an experience worth the effort.
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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby Tonkyhonk » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:23 am

Arillious wrote:To Tonkyhonk, its obvious we are on two different sides of this arguement. You keep using fallacious arguments(straw man) to argue against me. It's hard to have a real conversation when you keep doing this. I don't think anything I've suggested would dumb down the game or even make it easier. It would simply stop players from wasting time escaping out the game to look at tutorials.

:shock: what is so fallacious about my argument? im telling you to give better examples for your idea since you do have a point, which ive been saying. but the only part youre making a point with is with the gate system and not with the sawbuck.

look.
here is a basic info on cutting wood into boards with an easy animation, just in case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gn1zS4QoI

now look at this hollow log pic.
anyone in right mind would not try cutting this into boards cause you cannot.
Otter_in_a_Hollow_Log_by_FantasyStock.jpg
http://fantasystock.deviantart.com/art/Otter-in-a-Hollow-Log-87909134
Otter_in_a_Hollow_Log_by_FantasyStock.jpg (21.59 KiB) Viewed 1035 times

right clicking a hollow log gives you an option to check inside the log, so you also have the info that the log is hollow before lifting it. (the official tutorial already tells you to right click every object you see in game.) And you use a sawbuck when you want to make boards (or coffin plank), which is unlocked by learning Carpentry skill. the sawbuck telling you to "use only a fresh log but not a hollow log" is like a fishing rod telling you to "use it on water but not on land", or fps tutorial telling you to shoot enemies.

i hope you see what i mean by "dumbing it down" now :(
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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby painhertz » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:49 am

Not responding to Painhertz under the assumption he is still sore from past events and he is not capable of letting that go(pretty obvious by his first reply in this post).

Happy to hear thoughts from other players on this.


Anyone who knows me, which is a sizable number of people, will tell you that my responses to your post are pretty much par for the course of how I reply to posts. Don't confuse yourself into thinking that anything you've posted is enough to make "me" change my posting habits.

You couldn't figure out how to build a fence and thought that shovels were magical objects that dug holes without being in your hands. That's dumb no matter "what" you've posted in the past and instead of pleading ignorance you choose to blame it on the game. If you looked around you'd even notice that I posted some helpful advice for your boyfriend despite his assaults on my town because yeah, I can separate forums from the game.
"since i am in my 30s and could probably throw you across the room"

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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby jorb » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:33 pm

Hmmm. I'm not sure lack of tooltips is the problem, though I guess there are a few that are missing.
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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby ElCapitan1701 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:13 am

This thread is a perfect example, why things are going forward that slowly: a new player tries to help the game by posting which problems he had. The first answer he gets is calling him stupid between the lines and most posts after that the H&H veterans are discussing if his post was justified or not....that really doesn`t matter - don`t you see? Obviously there is a problem for some players so please just solve it! He did make a good suggestion to solve it imo. And try to not insult everyone caring about Salem, since there are still not that much of it.
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Re: Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

Postby mrnuggets » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:07 am

Essentially, to me, Salem is a niche game. It is its strength more than its weakness.

It is not condescending. Learning how to play Salem and be successful is not that easy and is part of the pleasure you get from it. Just as turn based wargames are not for everyone. Or point and click adventures.

Salem is bound to be a niche game, with its not so easy to live with rule of permadeath, and its rather steep learning curve.

But all for the better. It can be a niche of 10000 players or 10000000 players, I don't know, but in the end, people who will play Salem will have reason to stay. The community is bound to be passionate. People will know the rules and play by them. They won't ask in mass for this or that to be easier or for permadeath to go. Because the steep learning curve is one the reasons most of us are here in the first place.

It is not like any other MMO out there.

Of course it is always possible to make the game easier to play. There's always possibility to make it more user-friendly, less micro-managed, less perma-deathy and whatnot. The risk being that there'd be less reason for this said niche of players to stay. It'd be get closer to what's already out there and that doesn't differenciate itself/tries to please everyone from 7 to 77 years of age.

I don't want that to happen. I want it to be a place where more hardcore-inclined people can meet and play. People who are willing to have their character die, or wait 8 hours for their bear skin to dry :)

So, yeah, of course, one could make the interface more intuitive. But I like it that way. And changing it could open the door to many other unwanted things... But perhaps I'm being paranoïd!
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