Make things more intuitive in general - Example included

[Tonkyhonk]

Here's another person who ran into a road block when using the sawbuck.

http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=598

If right clicking the sawbuck simply showed that it was expecting a fresh tree it would go a very long way.

now that is not a good example if youre talking about "intuitive".
you dont want weak timbers, you wouldnt want to use a hollow log to do woodworking, would you?
gates needing 2 tiles is a rather fair example, though, because there is no way knowing that by intuition.

[Arillious]

Here's another person who ran into a road block when using the sawbuck.

http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=598

If right clicking the sawbuck simply showed that it was expecting a fresh tree it would go a very long way.

now that is not a good example if youre talking about "intuitive".
you dont want weak timbers, you wouldnt want to use a hollow log to do woodworking, would you?
gates needing 2 tiles is a rather fair example, though, because there is no way knowing that by intuition.

You would be right if a new user had not used hallowed logs to do all the woodworking crafts up to that point.

That was just half the usability problem though. To that point, the player had probably not lifted an in game object and placed it on a structure. It is probably a completely new UI mechanic to them(As it was to me). At that point, they had probably only used the 3 "ways to influence objects" outlined my sevenless:

Crafting recipe,
Left click one object, right click second object
Right click one object and select option

[Tonkyhonk]

You would be right if a new user had not used hallowed logs to do all the woodworking crafts up to that point.

ok, my wording. carpentry instead of woodworking.
why do new players want to use a sawbuck? for making boards, right?
would you try to use a hollow log for making boards? not like they could make particle boards or fibreboards here.

p.s.
is it a hallowed log? not a hollow log? meh

[staxjax]

is it a hallowed log? not a hollow log? meh

Hollow Log.

[Arillious]

You would be right if a new user had not used hallowed logs to do all the woodworking crafts up to that point.

ok, my wording. carpentry instead of woodworking.
why do new players want to use a sawbuck? for making boards, right?
would you try to use a hollow log for making boards? not like they could make particle boards or fibreboards here.

Chopping a hollow tree would would probably give you something different then if you chopped a fresh tree. In game they both give you a log. Hopefully we can all agree that the "People should know that it works this way because it works that way in real life" arguement probably is going to be more wrong then right.

[Tonkyhonk]

Chopping a hollow tree would would probably give you something different then if you chopped a fresh tree. In game they both give you a log. Hopefully we can all agree that the "People should know that it works this way because it works that way in real life" arguement probably is going to be more wrong then right.

you want to let devs make a tutorial pop up for basically everything?
why are you even trying to argue for "intuitive" game-play, then?
you cannot make a board out of a hollow log in general, it is obvious if you know what boards and hollow logs are like. it may be hard to guess if you havent actually seen either of those, but it should be obvious just like you guess you would want some cereal grains to make bread-doughs without being told so in game. lets not ask for "shoot your enemy" tutorials.

[Arillious]

Chopping a hollow tree would would probably give you something different then if you chopped a fresh tree. In game they both give you a log. Hopefully we can all agree that the "People should know that it works this way because it works that way in real life" arguement probably is going to be more wrong then right.

you want to let devs make a tutorial pop up for basically everything?
why are you even trying to argue for "intuitive" game-play, then?
you cannot make a board out of a hollow log in general, it is obvious if you know what boards and hollow logs are like. it may be hard to guess if you havent actually seen either of those, but it should be obvious just like you guess you would want some cereal grains to make bread-doughs without being told so in game. lets not ask for "shoot your enemy" tutorials.

Once again, another post arguing against a position I do not hold. Never did I say that the game should "Have popups for basically everything". I'm recommending that subtle tooltips or tutorials in strategic points of the game would be helpful. I'm also suggesting that some objects(like sawbucks) actually display the item they are expecting to be placed on it(Fresh log). This is especially critical early on so that new users do not run into mechanical road blocks early on and get frustrated.

Really surprised that theres a couple of people opposed to making the game easier(in the sense of knowing what to do) on new players to help retain population. Maybe its because you had to struggle through the early times and you want others to have to as well before they are on a even playing field?

[painhertz]

Chopping a hollow tree would would probably give you something different then if you chopped a fresh tree. In game they both give you a log. Hopefully we can all agree that the "People should know that it works this way because it works that way in real life" arguement probably is going to be more wrong then right.

you want to let devs make a tutorial pop up for basically everything?
why are you even trying to argue for "intuitive" game-play, then?
you cannot make a board out of a hollow log in general, it is obvious if you know what boards and hollow logs are like. it may be hard to guess if you havent actually seen either of those, but it should be obvious just like you guess you would want some cereal grains to make bread-doughs without being told so in game. lets not ask for "shoot your enemy" tutorials.

Once again, another post arguing against a position I do not hold. Never did I say that the game should "Have popups for basically everything". I'm recommending that subtle tooltips or tutorials in strategic points of the game would be helpful. I'm also suggesting that some objects(like sawbucks) actually display the item they are expecting to be placed on it(Fresh log). This is especially critical early on so that new users do not run into mechanical road blocks early on and get frustrated.

Really surprised that theres a couple of people opposed to making the game easier(in the sense of knowing what to do) on new players to help retain population. Maybe its because you had to struggle through the early times and you want others to have to as well before they are on a even playing field?

You seem to be on these forums with "stated" goal of making the game better but the "actual" goal of arguing with everyone about everything. You made your point, the game needs better/more info and tutorials. Now move along......

[MagicManICT]

I'm recommending that [...] tutorials in strategic points of the game would be helpful.

Guess it does need to be pointed out: These exist. If something specific is confusing or is lacking, point it out and say what, exactly, needs to be added.

[Tonkyhonk]

Really surprised that theres a couple of people opposed to making the game easier(in the sense of knowing what to do) on new players to help retain population. Maybe its because you had to struggle through the early times and you want others to have to as well before they are on a even playing field?

may i punch this dude?

i said gates needing 2 tiles is a fair example, and im saying we wouldnt need a tutorial telling us we cant place a hollow log on a sawbuck, and every other things we could easily guess from real life common sense. tell me, who would try to use this for boards?

players should not be punished for not having played haven before (like 2 tiles for a gate), but if i maybe so bold, players can be punished for their ignorance. and its not something about making players struggle, but its about not dumbing it down.