Salem

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[11:48:42 PM] Avu: Someone with an account there tell those noobs that until they scale defense to the size of the defenders civilization impact there cant ever be balance

So lets take said above into account and try to think for a way to revamp sieges. And before we begin, lets not forget that proposed changes will be tightly dependant on light/darkness mechanics and will require it to be properly implemented. So that is what I propose:

1. Living in high-civilized area should be beneficial to defenses:
   
   • Walls should have more hp
   • wall layers may have a bit of buffer health that regen over time in high-civ areas, but is shared by all wall segments that are connected
   • Braziers activate earlier and consume less fuel
   • Some advanced defenses should work only if in high enough civilization level
   • Defenses should not increase civilization rating of area.
   • Darkness should have reverse effect on defense mechanics.
   • Some production oriented civ bonuses should apply too, but they are out of the scope of this topic.
2. Actual raiding and especially base destruction should cost some resources, or be very slow if base is prepared and in civilized area:
   
   • raiding resources should be not easily stockpileable - they should go bad after some time. That way really big bases would require coordinated efforts, and not just few months of slow stockpiling.
   • Raiding resources that gone bad should be craftable into low to mid level useful stuff
   • resources required to destroy defenses and infrastructure should differ
   • there should be 2 ways to destroy infrastructure - fast but expensive (powder kegs), or slow but cheap (set on flames)
   • 'powder kegs' would ignore buffer hp of walls
   • existing mechanic of waste claims could be utilized to provide way for slow but cheap raiding, allowing defense destruction with cheap tools/bare hands
3. To prevent unnecessary wall layering and uncontrolled raid cost escalation multiple walls should have diminishing returns
   
   • walls built close to each other(2-5 tiles) will be affected by single 'powder keg'. Cannon shots should chain through walls -if you have 10 wall layers with 1 tile gap between them, then all 10 will be affected, and not just 5 first.
   • damage taken by wall should be increased if there is wall of same type inside it and closer than 10-20 tiles
4. Some sort of 'trespass mode' thieving without full-blown raid:
   
   • allows climbing over walls, alerts braziers, leaves scents
   • disables any form of waste/attack crimes
   • can be toggled on/off only when you have no crime debuffs on you
5. Other random stuff:
   
   • defenders can build short-lived (15-60 minutes) totems that will debuff (slow, damage and armor reduction and so on) any trespassers in their radius
   • attackers can build short-lived totems that will buff trespassers, but attacking totems should be placed on active waste claim

So what do you think of this suggestions? I am sure this proposition have many flaws, even tough I can't see any right now. But I'm not a raider and know not much about it. So input from those who knows is appreciated.

Looks damn good to me.

Tis the best idea I've seen so far. It covers all the bases (I think).

I'm for this, but I'd also like to see an alarm system in place when under a v claim. A system message or something to villagers. In cases like GH there was no way to know what was happening all the way on the other side of the village

Holy crap, this all sounds amazing.

This sounds excellent, hope the Devs takes a look at this. It would make a big difference for new players. What rewards are there for being in the darkness anyways? (Besides saying you live in darkness make you cool.)

It does (in theory) make it harder to raid a camp as you have to be more careful of draining your humors too low. The drain threshold cuts that much off your max stats you have to work with. Get below there, and with the crime debuff, you're likely to KO in the wilderness somewhere unless you're know which way to go to get the threshold low enough you quit draining.

It solves wall spamming, but without it 20 people attacking your town will get there in one go from different directions.
Canon and new walls idea is nice, but in the end you will have to fight to bash this canon or defend breach in wall... it still does not solve overpowered raiding.

Like I said in Announcements we can't defend towns if raid is like 20vs3 or 5, to make more equal chances we need to limit number of raiders that may go, during raid, at once on town claim. If limit would be twice more raiders than defenders online may bash and attack imho raid would be more fair, of course large group of raiders would have advantage because one wave of fighters/bashers would walk away to get rid of crime debuff and another would start next assault.

Idea behind this changes is not to allow small groups to defend against large ones. Large group will always be able to defeat small one. This is incentive to unite and create towns.
Goal of this changes is to to make sieges take really long time, so active players would have time to prepare, call for help or run away. Or if raiders are really determined, they can spend hard to make and stockpile resources to speed up this process. Idea is to make raiding small bases non-profitable if their defences are adequate. But still possible to do, if you determined - this should prevent easily built vaults and protect noobs.

EnderWiggin wrote:Idea behind this changes is not to allow small groups to defend against large ones. Large group will always be able to defeat small one. This is incentive to unite and create towns.
Goal of this changes is to to make sieges take really long time, so active players would have time to prepare, call for help or run away. Or if raiders are really determined, they can spend hard to make and stockpile resources to speed up this process. Idea is to make raiding small bases non-profitable if their defences are adequate. But still possible to do, if you determined - this should prevent easily built vaults and protect noobs.

If you want only make it longer make waste-claim warning time dependant on max town auth, so larger town = longer time to prepare defences.
And attack time should be 2 hours only then 4-8 hours break for both sides and repeat. It will make raids longer and raiders will lose more silver on totems drain.

EDIT: And my idea is not to allow smaller groups win vs large groups, just to be able to defend your camp, you can defend solo vs 2 maybe 3 raiders, but 10 vs 1 is 100% fail, but if raiders would have to split and attack in waves 2-3 people it would be much more fun, fair and it would take longer.
Smaller camps still won't be able to make counter-raid and siege larger towns, so imho it would be more balanced.