Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Salem

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Salem Ideas - a guest post by Mauro

Postby pistolshrimp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:42 am

Day 13: Salem Ideas - a guest post by Mauro

QoL:
Gates open automatically when you collide with them, IF you have the key. Perhaps make it toggle-able or something you attach to the gate like springs.
Pros: easier to maneuver bases and gates won’t interrupt the flow of gameplay. Cons: Making it a store-bought item makes the game more pay-to-convenience then it already is.

Balancing:
Let the crit hit damage of torchposts/braziers have an inverse relationship with the amount that there is on that claim.
Pros: Prevents the game meta from being spamming torchposts and braziers til your fps drops to 0. Also promotes creative and efficient placement of your defences since you cant have too many. Cons: In the short term it would force people to rearrange defences on their bases. Maybe it’s hard to code?

Fun:
A tavern in providence. Could be a hub for the in game TCG that JC was talking about some time ago.It would be a place to trade, buy drinks such as broth and tea. Maybe also wine since Concord is over? The tavern could also be the hotspot for occasional player and dev-driven events, such as the hookah competition or gambling with dice.
Pros: I think it’s fun. :) Also it feels kind of dull that the current hotspot for player Communication and trading is around the statue in the center of providence. I hope this could be a more exciting place for players to meet. Cons: How big would it have to be? I imagine it could get pretty tight at times. Maybe It could be the very first building in providence with several entrances. However I feel Like the church has done a good enough job of not cramming people too tight Whenever Marp is there. Definitely something to think about if it gets implemented Though.

Customizable flags. Exactly like the shield banners in Haven and hearth.It would be a purchasable item in the store.
Pros: Groups in towns could create their own emblem and have a stronger and more meaningful identity. Cons: Profanity and nasty images. I don’t know how to prevent this.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Kia » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:43 am

I'm no game DEV either, just a daily player of Salem.

I appreciate what you are trying to do and find your ideas interesting and positive pistolshrimp.

Thank you!
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Ronch » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:31 am

@PistolShrimp
Your own words on this thread and on discord explains your (initial) approach's motivation:
To aggravate JC into a dialog. That approach will not work. (a word to the wise is sufficient).

I like your tavern idea. I think with permission and some time, Marp probably already has the skill and ability to make the tavern idea happen.
Also, a building's exterior size on the map will not matter very much because buildings that character's can enter in Salem are all instance based / apart from the map.

Anyway, some game suggestions:
...Allow a player's new character to inherit an Ancestor's IOU's upon death.

...Over a year ago someone suggested Troll/Ogre events inside of mines.
The strength and or frequency of Troll/Ogre encounters are dependent upon mine level.
I would like to keep that idea from sinking into the forum's archives.

...Player stalls in Salem receive tax relief, a 50% cut until the game's population reaches a significantly higher number.

...Swimming and even wading through water should have a dramatic but temporary effect on character's thermal count.
Cold-snap, longer lasting effect on thermal count.
Ever-bloom, lesser effect on thermal count.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Champie » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:06 am

pistolshrimp wrote:...game is good, but it also has a few major flaws. We can ignore them and say well they;re HIS flaws, but that doesn't make the game better. I will not hesitate to call what I perceive are the flaws out, but not as a harsh critique but as a dialogue for improvement. I will also do so with a grain of salt, as I said above I know my place.


I'm impressed with your creativity and your productivity, but I think you missed the most important part of the process that you are engaged in here. I actually wrote this response after your 3rd or 4th post in this thread, but I deleted it before posting it and chose to wait to see how the thread developed. Now I am compelled to respond to the quoted text above.

Your "aw shucks" attitude is not convincing. You are obviously an intelligent and clever fellow who has put significant effort into this thread, but you failed to do the most essential thing - You have not defined or explained the "few major flaws" of the game. All of your ideas are interesting, but they seem like just a creative laundry list rather than a direct response to specific and well defined problems with the game. I haven't been able to figure out how or why anything that you have written actually makes a significant impact on the overall direction or goals of game play, especially end game play.

Here's what I can say about my own experience playing Salem:

New Map/server rush and character development up to about 100-120 humors and 50-75 points in each proficiency and the establishment of a Town is fantastic. Beyond that, I'm not a fan. I'd rather develop a new character every 2 weeks to 100 humors, etc than grind out a single main character to 400-500 humors and all the proficiencies that go along with it. I'd rather have my efforts result in an army instead of a super soldier. I feel that I would be more adaptable to losses and other changes if I knew my rebound time would only be 7-14 days instead of 3-6 months of regular dedicated and focused game play.

Thanks for all your effort pistolshrimp!
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby pistolshrimp » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:26 am

Champie wrote: you failed to do the most essential thing - You have not defined or explained the "few major flaws" of the game. All of your ideas are interesting, but they seem like just a creative laundry list rather than a direct response to specific and well defined problems with the game. I haven't been able to figure out how or why anything that you have written actually makes a significant impact on the overall direction or goals of game play, especially end game play.


*I appreciate this comment, I had hoped to talk about how each major change I suggested fixed issues I find with the game but you are correct it doesn't add up at this point, especially since the only major changes I have suggested so far have been a Temperature rework. My other changes are either for fun, or are part of laying the foundation for another change so I don't post a huge ass blocks of text like this one. I don't expect anyone to read this whole thing, but these are my thoughts on the game. I genuinely would live to see Salem thrive and understand for that to happen vets, new players, and devs need to be happy, or at least comfortable with the game. My thoughts probably differ from JC's quite a bit at places. There may be a way to rework this thread to better take into account what JC wants, but I don't want to take this that seriously, even this post, while it felt good for me to articulate everything, made me feel a bit like I'm taking this too seriously. :P*

Major Flaws

Learning Curve:
I am going to put this one first because I think it is one of the biggest issues and its probably the one I disagree with the most with JC. I understand JC's opinion is that the mechanics are not hard to learn and that this system filters out people who would complain the most when they get raided or killed write bad reviews or try to get refunds for shop items. It's not that I think the game is too hard, its more that some of the early game hurdles are un-intuitive and unrewarding to deal with.

Difficult mechanics SHOULD be a part of Salem, but frustrating is not the same as difficult. Two of the biggest offenders I see are Hypothermia and Insanity. Overcoming these doesn't fill you with some sense of accomplishment, at best you can mostly forget about them, at worst they remain a nuisance and chore even in late-game. These are not the only offenders but they are the most egregious.

Thoughts on Fixing: I do not think changes to the tutorial or community guides alone would be enough to fix this issue, as this hand-holdy approach makes it less difficult but not any more rewarding nor fosters any sense of accomplishment. I doubt this approach particularly appealing to JC.Instead of approaches that modify the difficulty I believe the entire early game needs to flow better and be more intuitive to modern video game players.

How I Propose to Fix: First switching to a Temperature mechanic which creates something like difficulty zones giving newer players a taste of the mechanics before having to dive right in. This also fixes Hypothermia and makes the ability to deal with it a reward mechanic, essentially opening up new parts of the map. I have an Insanity rework written up which will passive Insanity entirely and turn it into something you seek out like food cravings. Gaining Max Insanity unlocks Profession Skills. This way Insanity becomes a reward mechanic one opts into rather than deals with like a chore.

Permissions System

The ability to have people backstab you in cool, but too prevalent in Salem. If you get raided it can bum you out but you can improve your defenses, learn to fight, etc. The point is you have a direction inherent in your loss. When you get back stabbed the only direction you can take from it is to be less social. If being less social is too common a solution it becomes a problem for any game trying to be an MMO.

Thoughts on Fixing: I'm still wrestling with this one to be honest.

How I Propose to Fix: My only solution so far has been a "Menial Labor" Permission which covers small stuff like lifting and chopping without giving full permissions. I have some ideas regarding changes on a new stat called Status and its interaction with politics and crime, but I'm not sure how this will affect backstabbing and permission issues.

The Alt Problem: Champie you said it yourself, as have others. If a low level character has mostly the same benefits as high level characters what's the point? Also Alt are un-intuitive to new players, it is not common in games that you need to make more accounts to reach mid or late game. It also reduces consequences of your actions and puts more focus into your stuff/base than your character. Alts will always be a part of Salem, I don't even have anything against them, but I feel they are over-emphasized especially in comparison to vet vs new player and the skill gap it creates between them. JC has a weird relationship with Alts, both wanting them to be de-emphasized and then implementing mechanics that drive people towards throw away characters.

Thoughts on Fixing: There are 3 approaches I can think of to addressing this. Punish Alts by making them harder to maintain. Shift power onto mains. Needs to be balanced with not wanting to quit immediately if you lose your main. Shifting alt advantages onto non character activities/mechanics. Attempts to look at IPs and what not don't seem worth the effort,

How I Propose to Fix: I have a ton of changes scattered through-out my suggestions to address alts, using all the ways I mentioned above. I have already mentioned is Metes and Bounds shifting some of the need to make material alts onto the Metes and Bounds mechanic. The Stroy of Cain and Able will be moved to the Insanity/Profession mechanic making the Killing Blow more of an effort than a store item but also significantly less than it currently is to learn natively. Also changes to crime and the Status stat which will have effects on alts as well. Not so much to remove alts, but should help bridge the gap between players that opt into alts and those who never use them.

Combat & Crime:
Current crime heavily favors throw away characters and is part of the alt problem. Raiding exits in a weird place of completely doable and frustrating annoying. The focus on RNG in crits creates an arms race of new players being at the complete mercy of vets who decide to raid and mega bases that are virtually unraidable. This balancing act gets increasingly more tenuous as the game progresses.

Thoughts on Fixing: Fixes need to take into account mega bases, mega characters, alts, new players, and shop items. There is a lot to balance and not a lot of good ways to do so without alienating one group or another. Current mechanics are not good, but exist in a state of something similar several diseases all preventing one disease from getting out of control.

How I Propose to Fix: I have some ideas, while I've done plenty enough crime to understand the mechanics I've never raided much so I don't want to put my foot in my mouth with too many suggestions here. I have a crime rework that will dramatically reduces what we currently have as far as punishment for crime but with the consequences fanning out into other mechanics like Status and Politics. But my ideas past that still need work.

Profitability, Direction and, Vision:

Salem is perma death game where you can lose everything you own, but also wants to sell you stuff. It's the foundation of the game yet it is seemingly contradictory. I think this problem is one of the biggest although one that I haven't seen much discussion about. In the past JC has made changes that have protected carebears which is opposed to the hardcore nature of the game. To counter this he has added other "hardcore" mechanics to try to make up the difference, like Hypothermia, madness, and disease, all of which have their place in Salem, but never quite match that fear of maybe getting killed while walking in the woods I think some of us had in the old days. This is what I mean by a problem with direction and vision, the current approaches to profitability are counter to the direction of the game.

Thoughts on Fixing: Expeditions are alright. And these and introducing additional "hardcore" mechanics have been JC's go to methods of addressing this problem, but I think they have walked Salem into the very early game learning curve problem it faces. A new approach is needed that increases Salem profitability without harming the hardcore nature of the game or pushes it off onto Expeditions.

How I Propose to Fix: I have a bunch of suggestions for new ways to make money with Salem that will actually give more space to a return to hardcore mechanics of people losing their stuff or their character. I have the plan but I don't have it fully articulated and written up yet. I believe the slot adder, while a small change, is a start to addressing some issues with the store items.

MINOR FLAWS

Grind: This is and should always be a part of Salem, but there are points where its not unthinkable to build hundreds of something. The game would be better off if this was tweaked so that while high end grind is something you can opt into at a lower risk, or have other ways of obtaining at a higher risk. While temperature changes start at this I would like to make more, as well as continuing to flesh out temperature. Essentially what I am proposing is pushing the costs of grind onto other cost aspects other than time and patience.

Gluttony: This system is unintuitive to newer players, but not crazy so. I see the biggest flaw is that it enables min-maxing and essentially throws always time and effort devs spend on making new recipes. Maybe a better way of putting it is that if a better food is made it makes others virtually worthless. I have a complete Gluttony Overhaul made up that incorporated more of the 7 deadly sins while being more intuitive and flowing smoother for new players.

Purity: While good when it started its high enough now that it becomes a balancing problem for new food and mechanics, its no longer a cost. A change to purity has to balance purity but in a way that take into mind the effort people have put into it, so it can't be a reset. I will cover my solution in my gluttony rework.

Size: The map should be big, but it feels too big for new players and vets alike, smaller space creates conflict and drama which the game needs, however its not practical to shrink the map. My temperature change encourages player to compete for the most productive zones on the map thereby shrinking it without actually shrinking it, but not harshly punishing those who do not wish for that conflict.

Witchcraft System: This is a huge draw to the game but it is obviously broken currently. Even when it was ok Witchcraft never met the paranoia aspect that is fundamental to colonial era Witch hunts. I have the basics of a suggestion that will delver more on this aspect, moving leveling a witch from inspirationals to acts which put them in danger but in ways that increase paranoia, and the removal of darkness lets witches live amount the innocent.

Really Petty Stuff that bugs me and maybe it shouldn't.
This is me being a stickler, feel free to ignore this part, I only include it for the sake of completeness and I don't even take these that seriously. I think the theme of Salem should be slightly narrowed and stuff not available to New Englanders within say 100 years of the game should be moved unless there is a good reason to make an exception. This probably bugs literally no one else but Cacti and Tee-pees bug me to no end.
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Madness Overhaul

Postby pistolshrimp » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:37 am

Day 14: Madness Overhaul and Professions - Part 1: Basic framework of New Madness

This mechanic really irks me so I'm going to be rant for a second. I hate current Madness. Thematically it is the exact opposite of what it should be. When I think about this game and what i want Madness to be I think about Lovecraftain Madness; being driven mad with knowledge of something bigger and infinitely more frightening than our meager brains can handle. This is cool as *****. Not this current mechanic where oh i saw a scary bird so I guess I'm crazy now. I want much more of the former and much less of the later. Madness should not be one more chore to deal with in Salem but a path you opt into because it unlocks new knowledge but there are risks that come with obtaining that knowledge.

[b]What It Does:
Passive insanity removed, nearly all things that give or reduce madness that effect is removed. Instead Madness works like Craving do now. Each day you get a craving to do some thing crazy. You have 1 week to do that thing. If you do it you gain 1 madness level. If you fail to do it your madness is reset to 0 and you don't get another craving for another week.

Crazy activities work like cravings in that earlier levels are more likely to ask for easy things, where as the later levels are much more likely to ask for difficulty things.

Some ideas of Madness Cravings
Dig up a Traces of the Lost Colony
Lick a Moldy Board clean
Find a Mischievous Gnome
Witness a March Hare, witness X Monster
Drink Milk of Lime
Go to X location (edge of map, a certain fast travel place, a particular statue)
Eat spoiled food

Some of these things would carry risks, obviously seeing a particular monster is dangerous, but also licking boards and drinking lime would have a chance to give disease. Mischievous Gnomes still drop you inventory, etc. Basically a lot of these craving could be worked from current things in the game. I just mean when the voices tell me to take my clothes of and fight a bear, it seems cooler to then have to do that, than it just being some random voice in my head.

Why it's Good for Salem: Double down on Lovecraftain theme, we are in Providence after all. Removes the chore of madness and adds meaningful late game content(more on that later). This craving would give devs the opportunity to push new players into exploring mechanics they don't know about, so early game crazy cravings could be tailored to teaching players new things in an intuitive way.

Clarifications: Madness craving only unlock with a new skill called Pursuit of Forbidden Knowledge so new players are overwhelmed with things to do and instead opt into this feature. Cravings coming back after completing would scale with madness level, so the first few levels could be done quickly, but then cravings would come slower. Tomorrow I will post about the heart of this change, at level 10 madness new profession skills are unlocked and how that opens up a lot of room for Salem to be more a more interesting and diverse game.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Champie » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:17 am

Pistol, your way of thinking and writing is very satisfying to read! I hope I can add a thoughtful response to your recent posts some time soon. Thanks again for your excellent work here!
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Ronch » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:59 pm

pistolshrimp wrote:Permissions System

The ability to have people backstab you in cool, but too prevalent in Salem. If you get raided it can bum you out but you can improve your defenses, learn to fight, etc. The point is you have a direction inherent in your loss. When you get back stabbed the only direction you can take from it is to be less social. If being less social is too common a solution it becomes a problem for any game trying to be an MMO.

Thoughts on Fixing: I'm still wrestling with this one to be honest.

How I Propose to Fix: My only solution so far has been a "Menial Labor" Permission which covers small stuff like lifting and chopping without giving full permissions. I have some ideas regarding changes on a new stat called Status and its interaction with politics and crime, but I'm not sure how this will affect backstabbing and permission issues.

I've read numerous arguments on permissions, but have yet to read one with examples of any weight on how the current permission system negatively affects game play.

Although Town claims are used by players a lot in Salem to buttress large single Personal claims.
As I see it, the intention of Town claims is to accommodate mutual defense and corporate cooperation between a Town's citizens.

So the still standing default counter argument to the "fix permissions" argument still remains:
Player's personal claims inside of a Town's territory override all Town granted permissions inside of each personal claim's territory of that Town's citizens.
So, I do not see where the issue with the game's current Town permissions is or are.
...Maybe you could elaborate with typical examples of where permissions interfere with game play ?

I may offer rebuttals on your Alt exceptions too, but will wait and take one issue on at a time.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby pistolshrimp » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:56 pm

People who have played this game understand the permission system, and probably only really struggle with the limitations of what falls into what category of what crime, ie you should be able to let someone chop a tree without allowing them to destroy EVERYTHING you own. Or Cut a Board from a Sawbuck without being able to steal EVERYTHING you own. While annoying at time it's completely manageable.

The real issue is confusion for new players. For instance:
Image
That's literally all the in game help a new player gets about Claims and Homesteads. You HAVE to consult the wiki, which while is not HARD per-se. it is not normal in a modern game for players to be at such a huge disadvantage to not look for help elsewhere. There is a feeling of accomplishment in working through something and growing. No one playing this game likes to hold the hands of new players. I'm sure you are aware of the constant controversy with adding info to the wiki. Discovering mechanics fun, mastering them rewarding. Being told what to do feels lame. The wiki is a balancing act between impinging on the fun of salem and helping people who are truly stuck. When so much of Salem's difficulty is offloaded into the wiki the game loses some of its immersion. On top of this what EXACTLY counts as a crime is unintuitive. hell the names don't even match the skills so it adds another layer of obfuscation. How would i know Waste and Vandalism is the same thing. It's not even mentioned in the Skill's description.

I think most of confusion can be cleared up in an actual tutorial that involves crime, not offloaded into the wiki, nor some ugly box of text hidden in the menus.

Why is this permissions things so important tho, well it only takes messing up one time to lose everything. This strong dynamic exists elsewhere in the game, although probably not to this same extent and those mistakes also teach you something and empower players to move forward. Obviously not everyone will choose to, but its about giving the player AGENCY. Getting back-stabbed does not give agency, messing up your permissions because you don't understand them does not give agency. What I am saying is that Salem cannot afford to let players be confused and make mistakes about the Permission system. Mistakes should only be happening from pure laziness or stupidity. And to clarify, not assuming you HAVE to look at the wiki. or not completely understanding a system that exists in almost no other games is not stupidity.

Also yes, a pclaim overrides a town claim, but a town claim can invoke eminent domain on a plcaim so living in someone else's town is a little scary and super unimpowering when your major leaves. I'm sure you've seen tons of threads about the major leaving and everyone kinda being like, "well damn there nothing we can do." Like I mentioned before, you don't learn from an experience like that, or at least what you learn isn't healthy for a social game.


Ronch wrote:I may offer rebuttals on your Alt exceptions too, but will wait and take one issue on at a time.

I'm down for that. That's the kind of dialogue I hope this thread might inspire, not just anyone complaining, but challenging each other to fin ways to improve this game.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Ronch » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:08 am

pistolshrimp wrote:People who have played this game understand the permission system, and probably only really struggle with the limitations of what falls into what category of what crime, ie you should be able to let someone chop a tree without allowing them to destroy EVERYTHING you own. Or Cut a Board from a Sawbuck without being able to steal EVERYTHING you own. While annoying at time it's completely manageable.

The real issue is confusion for new players. For instance:
Image
That's literally all the in game help a new player gets about Claims and Homesteads. You HAVE to consult the wiki, which while is not HARD per-se. it is not normal in a modern game for players to be at such a huge disadvantage to not look for help elsewhere. There is a feeling of accomplishment in working through something and growing. No one playing this game likes to hold the hands of new players. I'm sure you are aware of the constant controversy with adding info to the wiki. Discovering mechanics fun, mastering them rewarding. Being told what to do feels lame. The wiki is a balancing act between impinging on the fun of salem and helping people who are truly stuck. When so much of Salem's difficulty is offloaded into the wiki the game loses some of its immersion. On top of this what EXACTLY counts as a crime is unintuitive. hell the names don't even match the skills so it adds another layer of obfuscation. How would i know Waste and Vandalism is the same thing. It's not even mentioned in the Skill's description.

I think most of confusion can be cleared up in an actual tutorial that involves crime, not offloaded into the wiki, nor some ugly box of text hidden in the menus.

The first and probably only thing that I want to emphasize is, contrary to your perspective I think that wiki is a new player's only friend in Salem until that player either finds one or more trusty friends in the game, or has been solo-scared by harsh lessons that Salem grows a calloused player into.
Meaning, If players are not willing to put frequent mental efforts into survival-thinking while playing Salem, then that player will quickly receive Salem's default stupidity recompense.

Although I do agree 100% with you that Salem's initial tutorial information provided to "new players" is sorely lacking.
I think JC has publicly agreed more than once too, but is unwilling to turn Salem into a hand-holding game. <--- (a little more on that later in this post)

Also, I am currently convinced that wiki has more than sufficient information about Salem's crimes and punishments, even for new players. I think there is even a link to wiki on the game's screen during game play too ...Meaning (as harsh as this sounds): no excuse besides mental laziness.

pistolshrimp wrote:Why is this permissions things so important tho, well it only takes messing up one time to lose everything. This strong dynamic exists elsewhere in the game, although probably not to this same extent and those mistakes also teach you something and empower players to move forward. Obviously not everyone will choose to, but its about giving the player AGENCY. Getting back-stabbed does not give agency, messing up your permissions because you don't understand them does not give agency. What I am saying is that Salem cannot afford to let players be confused and make mistakes about the Permission system. Mistakes should only be happening from pure laziness or stupidity. And to clarify, not assuming you HAVE to look at the wiki. or not completely understanding a system that exists in almost no other games is not stupidity.

It only takes one small mistake in any area of the game (besides farming on a claim) to quickly lose months or even years of grindy progress in Salem.
So I just do not see where "fix permission" applies to that aspect of Salem.

JC has said here on the forums that he would be the happiest with around only 50 players playing Salem.
I personally take that to mean; if you are new to Salem then wiki is your only friend until you find a trusty friend in it, or get a solo-scared feel for Salem's harsh game play ...until then, your fellow players are not your friends, and definitely JC is not your friend either. (it seems to revolve around wiki once again)

pistolshrimp wrote:Also yes, a pclaim overrides a town claim, but a town claim can invoke eminent domain on a plcaim so living in someone else's town is a little scary and super unimpowering when your major leaves. I'm sure you've seen tons of threads about the major leaving and everyone kinda being like, "well damn there nothing we can do." Like I mentioned before, you don't learn from an experience like that, or at least what you learn isn't healthy for a social game.

What you mention here is a trust issue: the remedy: just don't join the first Town that offers you citizenship. At least try to get to know Salem and it's community of players before establishing any sort of trust or reliance with any of it's players, OR... be willing to silently suffer the harsh consequences.

Salem is a "survival" game. The only thing social about Salem are Towns or friendly neighbors on the map besides this forum, wiki or discord. So again, be safe, think survival, just don't jump on the first opportunity that passes by in regards to trusting players in Salem's game play.

If you want, I will dig up JC's quote about him stating he would be the happiest or most content with only about 50 players playing Salem.
Again, as much as some folks do not want to be reminded: this is JC's game.
I personally think that Salem is only to feed JC's salty-tear eating hobby, and not a source of needed income for him.
There is plenty of evidence on his preference for our salty tears over our fiat-currencies. :lol:

In summary: unless I've missed something you've posted here or misunderstood you, I still do not see any weighty points that you've made toward "fixing permissions".
Last edited by Ronch on Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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