Renovate Raiding

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:35 pm

Taipion wrote:they simply want easy mode raiding and instant gratification,
which strips this whole thread and discussion of even the last sense of seriousness.

That is what it appears to be so far, no factual points supported by observable data.
This discussion is morphing into a long windy rant.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:38 pm

Dallane wrote:lol wtf? We need definitions to determine what a raider size should be and how big a town we are talking about being raided? It doesn't matter. You don't need set terms to see or say that raiding isn't in a good place.

Yes defining your terms used will actually help toward developing the game in this area ...that and displaying a bit of reading comprehension on your part would help a lot in actually accomplishing change in this game's PvP and raiding.
Last edited by Ronch on Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby riolic » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:43 pm

None of us want 'ezmode' raiding. From what I've read. We just want conflict to be possible on the permanent server without needing to neckbeard for weeks on end for a single raid.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:44 pm

riolic wrote:Competent raider = someone who knows what types of characters to use for what jobs. And is properly prepared with consumables. Food, etc beforehand.

A decent sized group in the current state of providence ranges between 3 and 8

A well defended base is anything that has walls brazier and torches. And no easily exploitable design flaws. IE: unlocked gates or missing claim coverage

+1
Now if folks concerned enough to offer their thoughts on this subject will use those definitions, rather than just tossing undefined words into the discussion solely to fool themselves into thinking that they are portraying actual valid points of complaint.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Dallane » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:58 pm

riolic wrote:None of us want 'ezmode' raiding. From what I've read. We just want conflict to be possible on the permanent server without needing to neckbeard for weeks on end for a single raid.


This

Ronch wrote:Now if folks concerned enough to offer their thoughts on this subject will use those definitions, rather than just tossing undefined words into the discussion solely to fool themselves into thinking that they are portraying actual valid points of complaint.


The paint chips must be extra spicy today
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Rifmaster » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:00 pm

Ronch wrote:
Taipion wrote:they simply want easy mode raiding and instant gratification,
which strips this whole thread and discussion of even the last sense of seriousness.

That is what it appears to be so far, no factual points supported by observable data.
This discussion is morphing into a long windy rant.


Most of the discussion has been done in discord so far. Repeating it here doesn't really make much sense, but I'll explain it to you with a shortened version.

Currently braziers and torchposts crit for % based damage, and they crit quite often. Simply spamming quite a few of them makes it impossible to take more than a few series of hits before you have to run away, not achieving any progress on the wall you're trying to break. One of the "arguments" Claeyt 2.0 makes is that its hard to make braziers and torchposts. This firstly doesn't make sense because a defender could pretty much just wait for raiders to make a bit of progress on an undefended bit of wall, then just make defenses there. Other than this it simply isnt that hard to make defenses. While large bases do require tons of leather for the torches, it's a cost of having a large base.

There are many other things that are broken, but really if we want to achieve anything we need the involvement of the developers, as arguing on the forums (particularly with taipion) leads nowhere other than providing insight into what people think about it, and gathering additional suggestions.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:02 pm

riolic wrote:None of us want 'ezmode' raiding. From what I've read. We just want conflict to be possible on the permanent server without needing to neckbeard for weeks on end for a single raid.

Well, for a small group (under 4 raiders) it should take 3 neckbeards, not just one to accomplish a successful raid in terms of breaching a multi walled base's defenses.
Success not meaning how much useful loot is won.

A year ago I was playing a game very similar to Salem, the same social and political situations were there as is here ingame.
There were several powerful tyrant leaders of the many powerful leaders in the game who were actually un-raidable, The other powerful leaders didn't want to mess with the tyrants, so the little folks banded together and Zerged the tyrants, meaning: what is so taboo about zerging ?

Also, if a raid-minded player cannot gather a confident advantage in numbers or knowledge to predict success in a raid, then most games (including this game Salem) offer other options to either steal from, harass or even kill your target.

These are the reasons that for me makes this discussion look like it's evolved into a poor-me rant from so-called raiders crying that they cant raid anymore... it's nonsense, period.
...Give me a bit more RL-time in this game and I'll prove Juda and Dalane are crying here because they have to risk a valuable developed character or work hard with less developed characters to destroy a thing that someone else worked hard to produce or otherwise acquire.
Last edited by Ronch on Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:03 pm

Rifmaster wrote:
Ronch wrote:
Taipion wrote:they simply want easy mode raiding and instant gratification,
which strips this whole thread and discussion of even the last sense of seriousness.

That is what it appears to be so far, no factual points supported by observable data.
This discussion is morphing into a long windy rant.


Most of the discussion has been done in discord so far. Repeating it here doesn't really make much sense, but I'll explain it to you with a shortened version.

Currently braziers and torchposts crit for % based damage, and they crit quite often. Simply spamming quite a few of them makes it impossible to take more than a few series of hits before you have to run away, not achieving any progress on the wall you're trying to break. One of the "arguments" Claeyt 2.0 makes is that its hard to make braziers and torchposts. This firstly doesn't make sense because a defender could pretty much just wait for raiders to make a bit of progress on an undefended bit of wall, then just make defenses there. Other than this it simply isnt that hard to make defenses. While large bases do require tons of leather for the torches, it's a cost of having a large base.

There are many other things that are broken, but really if we want to achieve anything we need the involvement of the developers, as arguing on the forums (particularly with taipion) leads nowhere other than providing insight into what people think about it, and gathering additional suggestions.

Thank you, that helps, a lot.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Dallane » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:12 pm

Ronch wrote:These are the reasons that for me makes this discussion look like it's evolved into a poor-me rant from so-called raiders crying that they cant raid anymore...


No one wants to make a 3rd job of raiding someone ontop of the 2nd job they have staying competitive in this game.

Ronch wrote: it's nonsense, period.


Clue number 1 you have no idea wtf is going on in this game.

Ronch wrote:...Give me a bit more RL-time in this game and I'll prove Juda, Dalane are crying here because they have to work hard in prep (beyond developing raid-characters) to destroy a thing that someone else worked hard to produce or otherwise acquire.


And here it is. You have no idea wtf you are actually talking about. You have no insight as to whats going on but have a strong opinion about it. NO ONE WANTS TO DESTROY A BASE WITHOUT PUTTING IN THE EFFORT. Usually no one wants to destroy the base at all. Literally no one is talking about destroying a base. We want to get past the walls to STEAL **** AND HAVE FUN. We want to break down a wall to find a thief and be rangers. Take back a stolen item for someone that hired us. We want to bring justice to someone else who broke into a friends base.

Please stop posting and go try put time into the game and see what everyone is talking about. Don't be afraid to say you were wrong. No one will judge you more than we already are.
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Re: Renovate Raiding

Postby Ronch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:21 pm

Dallane wrote:
Ronch wrote:These are the reasons that for me makes this discussion look like it's evolved into a poor-me rant from so-called raiders crying that they cant raid anymore...


No one wants to make a 3rd job of raiding someone ontop of the 2nd job they have staying competitive in this game.

Ronch wrote: it's nonsense, period.


Clue number 1 you have no idea wtf is going on in this game.

Ronch wrote:...Give me a bit more RL-time in this game and I'll prove Juda, Dalane are crying here because they have to work hard in prep (beyond developing raid-characters) to destroy a thing that someone else worked hard to produce or otherwise acquire.


And here it is. You have no idea wtf you are actually talking about. You have no insight as to whats going on but have a strong opinion about it. NO ONE WANTS TO DESTROY A BASE WITHOUT PUTTING IN THE EFFORT. Usually no one wants to destroy the base at all. Literally no one is talking about destroying a base. We want to get past the walls to STEAL **** AND HAVE FUN. We want to break down a wall to find a thief and be rangers. Take back a stolen item for someone that hired us. We want to bring justice to someone else who broke into a friends base.

Please stop posting and go try put time into the game and see what everyone is talking about. Don't be afraid to say you were wrong. No one will judge you more than we already are.

You've already been proven wrong on several points Dalane, just because you refuse to see it, doesn't mean folks with any 9 year-old's observation skills cant see it.

You would do well to read with comprehension in mind rather than knee jerk posting in efforts to instigate or redirect attention from your evident lack of effectiveness to change anything.
Meaning: you are almost useless here, other that an infrequent small laugh/pity drain.
...you admitted yourself that you can't raid or refuse to because (it cost you what you are not willing to pay)
...And by observation alone it's evident that you cannot communicate in a way that could possibly produce positive change here either.
................................................................Get a grip on things dude ;)
Last edited by Ronch on Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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