Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Should Gluttony be Evaluated?

Stahp It! Leave it alone, its fine and its only a VOCAL minority who don't like it.
19
19%
Too much change is bad. Keep tweaking it and hopefully one day we hit a good place. The core system is fine.
42
41%
Make major changes to the existing system, like removing restores. Find new ways to force variety without removing the whole thing.
13
13%
Remove the whole thing and spend your time on making Cravings the new system.
17
17%
Remove the whole thing and go with the Inspirational Idea. A simple reason to make all the stuff, without making everything so dang complicated.
11
11%
 
Total votes : 102

Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby kitty629 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:08 am

[quote="Chrumps"]Mostly what TheDuke86 said. Give one good food to each of: cabbage, corn, veg, bread, pumpkin foodgroup. Not sure about fish foods. In Potato group Shepherd pie needs only some more love and will be ok (less weight, more points).


Also: storage. Sucking factor of several foods is increased by the fact there is no good storage for ingredients like:
- fiddlehead fern, (garden veg and others) - veg bag or another bag
- baby corn (several foods, notably fyne salad) - veg bag or another bag
- bones (sauce chasseur) - stockbin
- potatoes - bag
- pumpkins - stockbin
- cabbage - stockbin
- fish - no good idea here - normally that would be salted fish in barrels

+1 this exactly, at mid and higher humors the amount of food needed to raise stats is staggering and the storage to have enough ingredients to make that much is insane. Then add the fact that pots will now wilt and soon probably fields as well if not harvested promptly makes it a hassle.
Also there is no storage for bugs or oakworth or even autumn grass and SALT!
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby Lallaith » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:53 am

removing restores would be terrible, the inspirational idea is terrible it would be extremely unpleasant to make 50 different things just for the sake of having another different item.

I just don't like how the current system has gone in such as way as to make just about everyone spam 1k either fruit or bagels for nearly every session, but the system itself has a lot of good points and could be really great with the right adjustments. theres little point ever gluttoning most of the noobier low hitting foods once you're a somewhat advanced player, and there's not so many foods that hit similar to a bagel. It's mostly stuff that takes a semi rare ingredient like majestic acorn or bear heart etc, or it's a food thats harder to make than a bagel but isn't really worth it in terms of points given, work to make and restoring.

it would be more fun if there were more higher end options with slightly different balance of work to produce, ease to restore, ff timer etc so that players might make a wider variety of choices depending on their preferences. I would also like to see more variable restores. Some groups have basically only that 2 hour 100% restore food or jalepeno, and are usually rejected in favour of things you can use a garlic braid or whatever for. Natural restores from game are so weak they go mostly ignored, what about slightly increasing them and giving them to more ingredients for more groups? Candy is nice but it doesn't really solve general gluttony restoring. It would be more fun to pick the things one likes best from a wider variety of similarly viable groups and food items, rather than how it is now with just a few items being clearly the best options in most cases. Let people capitalise more on the foods they enjoy producing.
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby Nsuidara » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:01 am

Keep the system and remove restores
Restores are a key problem. Not everything in Salem must have a 'counter' way to get around it. If restores are removed then all food groups immediately become relevant for long sessions. Some argue the simplest solution is to just abandon restores and view the landscape.

I think, good point - but this action don't fix the system.
Need something "limit" because bagiels etc. type food lose worth and low-rate food incerese worth - because no limit for eating.
Each food need cap (max) for be achived max billes - example one food can achived max 25 biles (what i wrote in idea)

but if you need fast fix the system - listen others, give other type food recipe like bagiels and add more more easy restore food - restore food its problem (crafting)
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby Kushtrim » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:54 pm

Chrumps wrote:Mostly what TheDuke86 said. Give one good food to each of: cabbage, corn, veg, bread, pumpkin foodgroup. Not sure about fish foods. In Potato group Shepherd pie needs only some more love and will be ok (less weight, more points).
Then all these new/boosted foods have to use non-rare ingredients only (read: be spammable), use no more than 5 different ingredients - which are easy to store in mass quantities.
Points per item are important and should not be worse than in the case of bajgiels. F&F time same or proportionally higher if they have more points. Small foodgroup debuff, not worse than 35% with 15% chance. Baking or roasting is ok, boiling is ****.

Add more 5% restores to various foods, to give incentive for mixing stuff, especially for domesticated meats foodgroup and do not ever add any dedicated restores for that group above what is now.
It is better to add 2x5% restore to two different foodgroups than 10% restore to just one.

Remember that people have infrastructure for bajgiels and their habits it will take a while to change.
Implement changes carefully, the system is quite ok but needs a lot of fine tuning.

Also: storage. Sucking factor of several foods is increased by the fact there is no good storage for ingredients like:
- fiddlehead fern, (garden veg and others) - veg bag or another bag
- baby corn (several foods, notably fyne salad) - veg bag or another bag
- bones (sauce chasseur) - stockbin
- potatoes - bag
- pumpkins - stockbin
- cabbage - stockbin
- fish - no good idea here - normally that would be salted fish in barrels

Taipion wrote:The one thing I hate most about the current gluttony system is, that having a high feasting set is less relevant the higher you get,
whereas it enables high end players to squeeze out low-mid lvl alts easier.


It also works great in a town helping new members to get reasonable biles.
The issue with feasting above 1k should be solved with foods which give more points per inventory slot but are more expensive.


Regarding inspirationals - the current system is mostly OK, except we suddenly have more C&D stuff after removing PP.

+1 I agree what Chrumps and TheDuke86 said making a bajgiel version of every foodgroup would be nice also balancing the restore food of all groups,but i think domesticated meats need also a restore food (100% restore food) like others have even if it requires sugar or pepper like in the other restore food recipes.
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby nosfirebird » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:38 pm

lol cravings are tedious on just 1 toon if you would nerf gluttony or scrap it and force everyone to just use cravings game would need to be called salemthesuicidegame

issue is your playing on concord and not on the main server. main server a town has to be able to **** out 50+ 600blue/500black bashers to raid active places because of tbf's
same thing with prof's you have up to 300 in the prof you where studying on concord, on prov people have 1000+ leave studying alone(there is already a penalty for studying something more then once)
for the people i have spoken to about the direction your taking the game most will be throwing everything on the ground and leaving
for me as soon as dual universe comes out im gone either way so go ahead and burn the world down ;)
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:55 pm

Please implement more tedious chores.
This is the exact reason people bot.
More dumb , boring things implemented on other boring and dumb things.
Inspiration system - perfect as it is. You played the game for 15 mins on concord and studied same item due to lazyness and now you want to rework it.
Harsher penalty for spamming. Jeez, its not like people farm for ages materials just to get enough potions for a big studying session.
Same **** with gluttony now.
And orchards.
Fixing things that aint broken leading to more broken things.
Oh, the tires need some air? Lets change the car.
Its your game, you can make it as ****** as you want.
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby Dallane » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:26 pm

ZoddAlmighty wrote:Please implement more tedious chores.
This is the exact reason people bot.
More dumb , boring things implemented on other boring and dumb things.
Inspiration system - perfect as it is. You played the game for 15 mins on concord and studied same item due to lazyness and now you want to rework it.
Harsher penalty for spamming. Jeez, its not like people farm for ages materials just to get enough potions for a big studying session.
Same **** with gluttony now.
And orchards.
Fixing things that aint broken leading to more broken things.
Oh, the tires need some air? Lets change the car.
Its your game, you can make it as ****** as you want.


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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby lachlaan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:25 pm

They're quality of life plugins that emulate haven a bit. I think even jorbtar finally realized that fun is inversely proportional with amount of clicks and severity of carpal tunnel syndrome acquired. To be fair though the more obvious option when fed up with the grind and repetitive nature of the game is taking a break or quitting or scaling down.
Exactly 6.022 x 10^23 worth of Lach molecules.
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby JohnCarver » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:42 pm

I'm not quite sure why we can't have a poll thread that stays on topic here. But as pointed out. The fix to 'repetitive' tasks, is more content allowing different tasks that are not repetitive. But then those tasks to cure the repetitive nature of making 10,000 of X, will just be met with frustration that htere is now a 'new thing' to take care of and unfairly categorized as a 'chore'. A perfect example is Animals. "I have to feed my animals now, more chores". Solution: Kill your animals. "I have to feed my turkeys". Solution "kill your turkeys". I have to plant 10,000 pots. Solution" Destroy 9980 pots and now you have to plant 20.

The incentive to 'mass-produce' is of course the root problem. But since nobody is forced to play at those insane levels, the burden of doing so I still shift the player CHOOSING to do so. I personally have 0 chores, and 0 repetitive tasks right now. The secret, I'm only working on the industries I find interesting and fun, and I'm only doing it to a level to which I don't find tedious. Asking me to fix the problem that is inevitably your own play style and play choices seems silly and I don't discourage the continued outcry about it, just make sure you realize it is met with my diabolical laughter not care or concern. THe entire idea of things spoiling is that when you no longer have the incentive to make 10,000 of something because it will all spoil or rot faster than you can use it, then maybe, just maybe, y'all will stop hurting yourselves.

But back on topic. It seems players are pushing more for improving the status quo, as such, I'll leave the few dozen changes to the existing system intact for the next patch. Many players keep bringing up extremely valid Gluttony concerns in this thread and I would encourage you to do so. When I have more time I"ll try to respond to them in a case by case fashion as many I agree with but a few I do not. End of the day though, if the 'mass' consensus is that the currently Gluttony system is indeed 'better' than it was and 'better' than any of the top suggested alternatives by vets, then I will continue to try to balance it, making more foods, more viable, and seeing if with a few more months of that we can't come to some solution that is palatable.
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Re: Gluttony Rework Mega-Thread

Postby TheDuke86 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:51 pm

All of the mass production stems from the need to mass Alts for end game content. I think if we did away from the near sure death of leaving scents it would reduce the need to amass Alts and thus cut down on the mass production.
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