Tree Diseases

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

How many tiles should Tree Disease Spread?

2 so I can still make woods in my base.
41
33%
3 so I can have a pot or beehive next to them and still squeeze by
8
6%
4 so that orchards are spread out and fruit is more valuable.
14
11%
5 because board piles spacing is how the cool kids do it.
3
2%
6-8 because bases should be for infastructure and trees should be speckled about like town border stones.
3
2%
10+ because I want to watch the world burn.
56
45%
 
Total votes : 125

Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Lallaith » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:02 am

2-3 tiles seems reasonable to me. I do think it's nicer to have a disease mechanic than just forcing them to be planted further apart, but this could also have a lot of bad effects if it's not done right.

If the required spacing is too large, it will just lead to even worse base aesthetics and the claiming of even more land that wouldn't otherwise be needed. I will want around the same amount of fruit as i've been getting before the recent patch and will expand the space of my orchard if I need to, i expect it would be the same for a lot of people.

my main concern is that having it apply even to trees out in the wilderness would be really bad, it would suck to have the world be mostly bare of trees in so many ways. i don't think people's regular tree forests for timberpiles etc are such an issue its worth an effect like that. How about leaving the regular trees alone?

having it apply to regular trees would also make it annoying to just use them for decoration and convenience around the base, like those trees by the ovens we all have. I'd also like to know if we can do something to cure a diseased tree. I think that would be important with fruit tree purity and continuing to have decorative trees and oven trees etc without it being a huge nuissance. If some portion of my trees will be dying each season, I might make an even larger orchard just so there should remain a reasonable amount of trees with decent purity. If i can cure my sick trees, I may opt for a smaller orchard I find it reasonable to maintain nicely.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Kandarim » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:22 am

i still don't see the problem with higher bloom chances but lower yield per tree (down to like 1-2 pieces per bloom).
I have neither the crayons nor the time to explain it to you.
JC wrote:I'm not fully committed to being wrong on that yet.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Nsuidara » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:05 am

about town tree meybe we should modeling

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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Taipion » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:54 am

For once I find it funny how JC has probably never seen a tree nursery or an actual fruit orchard. :lol:

But most funny thing is how he has not yet answered the kill-all-trees-in-salem(no exceptions!)-question, as there probably is no answer to that.
If it effects ALL trees, even with a low chance, it WILL kill ALL trees sooner or later.

Suggestions to circumvent ugly diseases and the complete de-forestation of all salem:

1.) "prepared soil"
- fruit orchards gives you a new skill to prepare the soil (like a tilled field)
- you can only plant trees in the centre tile of this "prepared soil" field (ToDo: find a good name for it)
- "prepared soil" can be any size you want, to make tree planting as spaced out as you want
(well, that one might be a bad idea considering how difficult it would be to make a working transition)

2.) "tree support"
- also unlocked with fruit orchards
- needs to be placed next to a tree for it to grow, otherwise it will: not grow/fall to either side and damage stuff around it/explode/... (chose at least one)
- has a radius like boundry stones in that it clearly states no other tree support may be placed
- only supports one tree each (visually attaches to the closest tree when build)

3.) "harvesting net"
- my personal favorite! :-)
- unlocks with fruit orchards (recipe)
- add new lower end skill to use it
- needs to be placed "on top" of a tree (around it, visually, but "on" the tree technically)
- without it, you may: not harvest fruit trees at all / harvest at 1% speed / harvest only 10% of the fruits / have a random chance to break your bones when falling off a tree/ .... (chose at least one)
- needs FREE space around the tree to place it => free choice as to how much free space around the tree is needed
- fruit per tee and harvesting speed should be adjusted to reflect the added work required to harvest
- comes in 3 versions (cheap, expensive, shop) with different deploy speeds and harvest speeds (and possibly different # of fruits harvested multipliers)
- (optional) has wear and needs to be replaced every so often => variable cost option for getting fruits as an additional means of balance


[edit:]
For the variety and depth of the game, the biome trees stand on could be made relevant to the chance it blooms and the # of fruits it gives,
whereas naturally different trees prefer different biomes, and blooming chance and # of fruits does not need to go along,
meaning there may/should not be a "best biome" for every tree that has both best blooming chance and best # of fruits.
(for not-fruit-trees it could effect the respawn time of what they provide, and the number of those)
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby MaxPlanck » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:25 pm

If JC really wants to nerf just fruit trees. Then just reduce the fruit each tree spawns normally and you can make it more balanced.


But if for some reason JC wants to add this mechanic to all trees and thinks other tree farms are too OP for some reason then by all means, add bark beetles to the trees.


P.S.
-Trees in the wilderness should not get infected as much as you think with bark beetles as the chance to spawn bark beetles is based on the chance of it happening when the tree regrows its "harvestables" is how JC worded it to be working.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Taipion » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:41 pm

MaxPlanck wrote:P.S.
-Trees in the wilderness should not get infected as much as you think with bark beetles as the chance to spawn bark beetles is based on the chance of it happening when the tree regrows its "harvestables" is how JC worded it to be working.


Oh, nice that he tells you all about it but leaves 4 pages of this thread open to that question.... -.-

Well, at least that means a tree farm for the purpose of gathering logs won't be effected, yet, with 10 tiles spread... there soon won't be a single tree in the newbie spawning belt around provi,
that sure will look strange to those new players. :lol:

Still, as not only I pointed out, totally unnecessary at all, if not for the single reason that JC wants a tree disease (and no trees in a pretty huge radius around provi).
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby MaxPlanck » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:05 pm

JohnCarver wrote:Trees will soon become infected by bark beetles. About 10-20% of how frequently they 'bloomed' in the previous mechanic. This will be all trees. This will cause many tears. The question for you is, how many tiles should the disease spread from tree to tree. I'm fully aware the consquence that your massive orchards crammed into tiny spaces will suck now, I'm sorry.


He didn't tell me anything, maybe I misread but it just said here that the chance of beetles infecting trees seems to work like blooming does. If not, then thats probably how it should work if this would be implemented.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Taipion » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:23 pm

MaxPlanck wrote:
JohnCarver wrote:Trees will soon become infected by bark beetles. About 10-20% of how frequently they 'bloomed' in the previous mechanic. This will be all trees. This will cause many tears. The question for you is, how many tiles should the disease spread from tree to tree. I'm fully aware the consquence that your massive orchards crammed into tiny spaces will suck now, I'm sorry.


He didn't tell me anything, maybe I misread but it just said here that the chance of beetles infecting trees seems to work like blooming does. If not, then thats probably how it should work if this would be implemented.


iirc blooming worked the same way as decay ticks, or even worked with/through those, that is why it was beneficial to keep the area loaded

I don't read anything here that would even remotely suggest JC is not hellbent on eradicating 99.999% of all the trees in salem, maybe to save server resources... who knows....
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby MaxPlanck » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Well, what I had meant was that a tree should have the chance to become infected every time it regrows its "nuts" "fruit" etc. and not rolls a chance everytime server map loads.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Darwoth » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 pm

fruit is not the problem, the bot users with berry juice is the problem as i have been saying for the past year before it became the issue it is now. remove berry juice from fruit recipes until a better solution can be found (such as making a real client and banning bots instead of endorsing them because the free "client maker" likes to nerd on **** that breaks the game) than ***** up more already existing **** and making yet another aspect of the game a further tedious pain in the ass.

edit: and if your going to do anything at all why not go for something with depth that is somewhat interesting like a forest fire mechanic that requires an active antagonist to start instead of another passive built in annoyance factor that serves no purpose at all other than ***** on you no matter what with the RNG?
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