Tree Diseases

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

How many tiles should Tree Disease Spread?

2 so I can still make woods in my base.
41
33%
3 so I can have a pot or beehive next to them and still squeeze by
8
6%
4 so that orchards are spread out and fruit is more valuable.
14
11%
5 because board piles spacing is how the cool kids do it.
3
2%
6-8 because bases should be for infastructure and trees should be speckled about like town border stones.
3
2%
10+ because I want to watch the world burn.
56
45%
 
Total votes : 125

Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Zapt13 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:55 pm

JohnCarver wrote:Trees will soon become infected by bark beetles. About 10-20% of how frequently they 'bloomed' in the previous mechanic. This will be all trees. This will cause many tears. The question for you is, how many tiles should the disease spread from tree to tree. I'm fully aware the consquence that your massive orchards crammed into tiny spaces will suck now, I'm sorry.


This is really interesting to me. I wonder at the predicted balance issue as alluded to in the Patch Notes of Tulip Mania http://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20368&p=300610&hilit=fruit#p300610. The reliability of fruit is the apparent problem. Bloom rate was drastically buffed, but I don't recall seeing a reason for this. Was the previous bloom rate a problem in some way? As a community we might be able to propose better alternatives if the basic nature of your original objection was made clear.

In the meantime, assuming that disease is coming to Providence, I have a few more questions:

I'm assuming that a "tile" is a small-grid square that you can dig or fill to level, and not a large map tile. Will we be able to learn a skill to detect the infection and combat it, or apply a repellent to protect against it for a season? Can we weaponize the disease by striking a cutting from a diseased tree and infecting our neighbors trees? Will this leave scents?

What is the effect of the infection? Do nearby players become infected similar to a tick? Or will the tree simply suddenly appear sickly with no harvestables and needing to be cut down by a player, disappear outright, or perhaps fall in a random direction and leave a log and stump? I think many would plant large tree farms in hopes of illness in order to create a stump farm, so nix that last one. Will the disease propagate automatically within the radius, or will there be some RNG like splash damage from falling walls?

Is this "random" event consistent with certain effects that Paranoid Peter discovered?
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Dallane » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:56 pm

Darwoth wrote:fruit is not the problem, the bot users with berry juice is the problem as i have been saying for the past year before it became the issue it is now. remove berry juice from fruit recipes until a better solution can be found (such as making a real client and banning bots instead of endorsing them because the free "client maker" likes to nerd on **** that breaks the game) than ***** up more already existing **** and making yet another aspect of the game a further tedious pain in the ass.

edit: and if your going to do anything at all why not go for something with depth that is somewhat interesting like a forest fire mechanic that requires an active antagonist to start instead of another passive built in annoyance factor that serves no purpose at all other than ***** on you no matter what with the RNG?


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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby strpk0 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:49 pm

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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Taipion » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:52 pm



Michael Bay version please! ^^
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby strpk0 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:07 pm

Taipion wrote:


Michael Bay version please! ^^

yes
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Chrumps » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:42 pm

If you want to make it a meaningful mechanics then you need 'unlimited' infection range, say at least 50 tiles but with infection chance decreasing with 1/(r^2), where r is distance between infection source and target.
Then we need a disease cure, because raising fruit purity is slow. Under current mechanics it will take 6 months to grow 64% tree with 90% beehive. At frequency at the level of 10-20% of previous bloom frequency a typical orchard will have several infected trees per season, even without spreading. That's going to kill the fruits purity within a few seasons.

Also, if it is implemented as previously with decay hits, it will be now recommended to have an orchard in a secluded area which is prohibited from loading for the whole season, except for harvest. So much about supporting larger towns. :cry:

What about making fruits drop to the ground or become rotten if not harvested in time ?
What about trees not giving fruits at all because lack of light, similar to how timber piles catch mold ?
What about decreasing resulting purity by the factor of free surface around the tree vs certain minimum amount (5x5;7x7) ?


Darwoth wrote: banning [..]

Sounds like a leftist idea.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Darwoth » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:33 pm

yeah dawg, eliminating the bots that ***** the entire balance of the game up since their inception and led to this outcome exactly like i knew it would instead of not ***** up the game even worse with a dumber than ***** mechanic such as the one suggested here instead of removing the bots is a "leftist idea" :lol:

ironically in all the games ive played with the rare exception it is always the europeans (leftists) at a ten to one ratio that have to use garbage like this because they suck and then they still fail to ever compete anyway. the univeral end result is they ***** the entire game up for everyone around them just like they do the real world in their host regions.

from game to game as soon as any of the cheat programs (which is precisely what every "feature" in kandarims ***** is, particularly the bots) go away so do all of the underachiever leftists. since this game is 90% leftwing european socialist and that ratio is the same approximate number that use marp "here is a few million in free terraforming base upgrades for my ball garglers" tarpton (a leftist) approved plugbots along with the massive unpaid loser claims for the past 2.5 years among other ***** it would appear nothing has changed between salem and any other game. europeans still suck, cheat, lose and like all parasites then proceed to merely suck the life out of their host before moving to the next.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Chrumps » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:57 pm

You seem to believe banning changes anything.
Consider alarm plugin. How one would efficiently enforce the ban ?
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby Darwoth » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 pm

Chrumps wrote:You seem to believe banning changes anything.
Consider alarm plugin. How one would efficiently enforce the ban ?



this is a really horrible argument for lazy people i have heard hundreds of times since oh 1995 or so when i started this hobby, every lazy dev team in every small to medium sized game has used it until their game was destroyed and they went under or they stopped being stupid and fixed the problem. i am aware you can not fully "prevent" cheat programs, i am also aware that java is about the worst possible platform in existence to build a game on and as such that much more difficult to remedy.

there have been botting jackasses in salem since the very beginning during paradoxs reign (mostly russians) however it was not a game ruining problem until the past year with this stupid ***** "plugin" garbage, the ever expanded library of "allowed" (and unallowed) "plugins" along with constant up to date tutorials on the forum on how to create, troubleshoot and use the bots that issues such as "needing" to cause everyone a collossal pain in the ass to "fix" the "easy character spam" from botters using fruit juice in their distiller plugin that fruit and the sudden need to ***** with it and cause more pointless time sinks (in what is already the biggest grind on the internet) magically became an issue.

which was pretty much my first concern well over a year ago when i raised the issue, "it wont be a problem, this lets us "know whats out there d00d" so we can "fix botting". yeah, like pvp three years ago :lol: :lol: :lol:

it was not until "someone" with zero experience in any competitive pvp game gave the go ahead on that in spite of said protests that the game was condemned to failure thanks to said "plugins" because until then the people who used bots were sparse and kept it quiet as they were not legal. now there is no need to do so because they are.

switching certain **** to serverside, implementing randomization (ie flower menu is not always the same, time intervals are randomized, inventory objects do not always open in the same spot, items have a unique id number instead of a generic "distiller" and so on) along with lots of other anti bot measures used successfully in many other games that gave a ***** about a real solution instead of ***** with the game mechanics and causing headaches to the entire playerbase in order to fix a botter created problem.

yeah, there will always be people that suck using some form of bot. making it legal thus publically acceptable and freely available/discussable on the forums and in the nerdcord channel like a complete retard is why virtually the entire game uses them now instead of less than ten percent like before. as a result stupid grind increasing changes like this will continue to be implemented across every aspect of the game in an effort to glue pointless bandaid "fixes" over a sucking chest wound which instead of "fixing" anything at all does nothing but make the problem worse until it kills the host.

a short term fix to the fruit issue that would take all of 2 minutes is changing the fruit recipes to no longer use berry juice, this was suggested a year or more ago. by me. because of this exact problem. as always i am ignored and the exact problem i said would occur does in the exact manner i said it would.

a mid term fix to the fruit issue to even the field between botters and non botters would be upon the end of concord allowing grape juice (in a larger amount than berry juice currently uses) to be used as a replacement.

BOTH of the above solutions fix the character spamming, leave existing mechanics alone and do not antagonize the playerbase in any way whatsoever.

prior to the distiller bot nobody used berry juice for their gluttoning because it was the least efficient. when i was still statting up combat alts i had something like 600 bee skeps at one point in order to produce enough honey to make an everbloom of fruit every two weeks as honey takes a long time to build up. the fruit juice bot you can make enough **** for ten everblooms in a few hours. its ***** stupid and has been breaking the game for the last solid year. every single newb who has been **** on and ragequit by the type of ******* that gets themselves killed over 20 times in two weeks can thank this plugin and berry juice.

an ACTUAL FIX to the fruit issues and all the others created by this current pro botting retard climate would be to feign giving a **** and then regain control of the ***** game from script kiddie nerds by having a real client made, outlaw all others, get rid of the stupid ***** artifice forum completely, implement anti botting measures and then enforce them.


edit: it would appear a dozen "Asendra" alt accounts wish for the ten tile option.

personally i agree, if more dumb **** is going to be put in we should at least go all the way and make it as dumb as humanly possible.

as such the disease should be a very aggressive verdant form of ebola imo and should spread to every tree AND plant AND ground tile on the same loaded map tile. additionally it should not only infect the trees but when the tree "dies" it falls over and explodes into shards of wood causing a few hundred million damage and permakilling everyone near it.

furthermore rotten fruit should give no indicator it is rotten until you eat it, if you fall over dead after ten bites it was rotten. there should also be the ability to airburst a boomstick barrel into an orchard showering the trees in boomsticks turning a percentage of the fruit you pick into fruit grenades that will blow your arm off when you pick the fruit giving you a hook hand, like kuku used to have before her hand was magically glued back on somehow.
Last edited by Darwoth on Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tree Diseases

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:42 pm

If alchemy tables had different menu and if you increased the time that berry needs to be in a destiler that would be acceptable as well.
My biggest issue is annoying as hell interface that only contributes to carpal tunnel develompent but not increasing the difficulty of a task.
Rework tables, make it a tick based action and make berries take 4h to be done.
Just my 2 cents.
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