About Salvage mechanics

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About Salvage mechanics

Postby Argentis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:26 am

Hello,

I have noticed that you can salvage anything that is out of a claim. It's an interesting mechanic as new player can take over ancient bases more easily and use the buildings present to get materials such as nails or dry boards (notably from a Farmer's House, a chest, etc). However I feel like the charm of exploring as a beginner is through the exploration of such abandoned places in the hope to find loot or interesting base designs. Such a salvage mechanic incites older, more established players to salvage the abandoned claims and to make them disappear. It might be intended goal but I think that the primary goal of the salvage mechanic is to allow players to redesign their bases more easily. In term I think that exploration would lose a certain appeal for both new and returning players.

Some may argue that it can actually help new players as it provided them another way to obtain nails, dry boards, or even pig iron (by salvaging an anvil for example) and in rarer case wrought iron (i.e. through the salvage of braziers). However the access to this information is not as readily avalaible to new players as it is to more established players and my guess would be that these resources will be salvaged primarily by established players and not new players.

My proposal would be to only allow salvage on Pclaims or town area. It would still fullfill the salvage primary goal (to help redisigning bases) while helping new players take over older bases. It's a shame that new players would not be able to salvage buildings as they explore around and have to spend some silver for a Pclaim, but I feel like it is a necessary evil.

What do you think?
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby JohnCarver » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:28 am

You can only salvage what you can build.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby Argentis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:48 am

So you mean to say that the salvage mechanic was never intended for new players and that my grievance is an intended mechanic?
Otherwise the fact that we can only salvage what we can build is not an issue.

I take the example of a new player. Let's call him John.
John does the tutorial. He goes to Providence and wanders around for a few days. In the meantime he unlocks some skils, up his proficiences and his biles (around 30 biles for a new player with no knowledge of the game is I think a fair assessment). Eventually he looks for a place to settle. He does some research and learns that he needs a place with access to water, clay, lime and a mine. He manages to get enough silver to buy a dowsing rod and finds a good place. He then still need to buy: 5 Pig Iron for the Smelter, around 10 Nails for the mine and other basic infrastructure, 5 Pig Iron for the Anvil and 3 Wrought Iron for the Pickaxe (the biggest investment). The fact is he can build all that but he has no way to get the iron without trading (intended I know). Chances are he would have to trade for the pickaxe no matter what. But he could salvage nails and pig irons from various structures in the game. He could also salvage Dry Boards from Farmer's Houses (very easy to build and a newbie with a few days experience will definetly have access to this skill) to build Pillars in his mine instead of having to wait 5 days for his timber piles to dry.

Simply put, it would allow for more flexibility and a better access to basic ressources to new players while not impacting much the gameplay for more experienced players. You may find it a carebear change but in the end it would still be a mechanic that needs research and investment to use effectively.
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby JohnCarver » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:09 pm

Your example seems fine. I was merely pointing out that a player stumbling into an established base and plundering all of its structures is not likely given they must have the blueprint to salvage something. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that piece of it as it was added after the salvage mechanic first dropped.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby Chrumps » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:51 pm

Most valuable unclaimed stuff was salvaged long ago. I saw places where scavengers only bothered to salvage wall cornerposts for yellow bricks.
The effect of requiring to place a pclaim will be such that anything that yields more than 150s worth stuff on average will be pclaimed and salvaged and the world will be filled with 5x5 claims even more than it is already. The logic is the same as for pclaiming a leanto.
Raiders won't like that change either.
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby Taipion » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm

Chrumps wrote:Most valuable unclaimed stuff was salvaged long ago. I saw places where scavengers only bothered to salvage wall cornerposts for yellow bricks.
The effect of requiring to place a pclaim will be such that anything that yields more than 150s worth stuff on average will be pclaimed and salvaged and the world will be filled with 5x5 claims even more than it is already. The logic is the same as for pclaiming a leanto.
Raiders won't like that change either.


Yea, there is no easy fix to that, but it is not that important either.
Only allowing salvaging on your own plcaim has good and bad things to it,
I'd like the more control over who can salvage what by that,
but then again one could simply add salvaging as a separate selectable right in the town management menu.

The only real problem I see with salvaging is townbelling someone, as you can salvage the bell to get back a good bit, even your town charter if you are lucky,
plus the added loot through salvaging further alleviates the cost of townbelling someone.

We all remember why the town charter does not cost 2500s anymore.

So I'd say, at the very least, TBs should not give back any mats when salvaged.
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby Argentis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:37 pm

JohnCarver wrote:Your example seems fine. I was merely pointing out that a player stumbling into an established base and plundering all of its structures is not likely given they must have the blueprint to salvage something. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that piece of it as it was added after the salvage mechanic first dropped.


I was aware :) but the thing is that the fact you need to have the blueprint only reinforces the idea that salvaging is a tool for more established players while I think that it would be more suited for beginners.
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Re: About Salvage mechanics

Postby grimkid » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:33 pm

you cannot help beginners like this without allowing ilder players to abuse the mechanic
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