[Prov] About "Food"

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Chrumps » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:23 am

gustavohvg wrote:Hmm I like to have grindy and difficult foods in-game so I can skip them, choose carefully my glutony, and feel smart when my decisions works.


The problem is, of some 140 variable foods, there is maybe as much as 10 foods worth preparing, bajgiels being 4 of these and most of others being restores.

Let's go group by group

Berries
There is no better food in berries group than bajgiels, because Jelly Roll has higher reduction stats and more complicated production with somewhat rare ingredient (isinglass) and Jam Sandwich is complicated, expensive and kills the foodgroup.
I could consider using Jelly Roll in some edge cases, but it is not worth remembering anyway. Jam Sandwich makes no sense at all
I am OK with lack of cheap restore for berries, because this group is relatively easy to spam. Having jalapeno and sweets as only viable options is somewhat balancing.

Shellfish
Bajgiels are simply the best, no discussion here.
Surf & Turf is useful because it can pack reasonable amount of bile points and restore in one piece.

Slugs Bugs and Kritters
Again, bajgiels are the best, two other power foods in this group being foodgroup killers.
This is a foodgroup i did not count as worth making because bugs cannot be really spammed and quantity available is dependent on number of pots planted. It is also limited to blood and phlegm because of this.

Nuts and Seeds
The two foods worth making are Bajgiels with walnuts and Venison with Pickled Nuts, with the latter being dependant on rare ingredient.
Similar to berries in having no good restore and being easy to spam. I am OK with having no good restore.

Mushrooms
There are two good foods in this group with bajgiels being slightly better on practical side which is a combined effect of higher cost, larger amount of ingredients, higher foodgroup reduction stats, which may be or may be not fully compensated by lower F&F timer and sightly better stats.

Game Meats
Tenderboiled Terrine and Windy Pooh are two foods worth making with the latter being dependant on rare ingredient.

Poultry
This foodgroup only makes sense as a noob food in 0-50 biles or as a restore carrier.
The two good foods in the group are both dependant on rare or at least non spammable ingredients and are foodgroup killers.

Bread
Brown bread with both rare and expensive ingredient is not worth bothering.
Plain bajgiels make sense at 30-50 range of biles.
Tasty cakes can be used as restore carrier.

Corn
The two foods in the group that could make sense are foodgroup killers.
Roasted corn is useful at low biles.

Cabbage and Kale
The only powerful food in this group has 80% reduction.
Cabbage crunch salad is a popular restore carrier.

Pumpkins
All powerful foods in this group are food group killers and most of them are complicated or expensive to make.
I used to make Aztec Abbatoir and Sugar Delight at lower biles and with abundance of pumpkins but I gave up because they are not worth their weight and space taken.

Fish
The two top food in this group are foodgroup killers.
Cod Rolls in Lobster Sauce is too complicated and gives too much reduction to be considered seriously.
Fish Tacos may make sense in some edge cases.

Vegetables
Dragon's Breath salad is too expensive for it's worth.

Potato
Potato Salad and Shepherd's Pie are too complicated and to heavy for their worth.

Domesticated meats
The two foods worth making are Tasty Tacos and Scary Strogonoff with the latter being dependent on rare ingredient.

Fruits
The two foods of choice are Berry jubilee and Sweet Jerky. I am OK with this group having only restore in jalapeno.

I have written above from the perspective of 100+ biles char. Gluttony in 5-50 and 40-100 bile ranges is somewhat different but under current game conditions it is an edge case.
By foodgroup killers I mean foods with 70-80-90 % reductions to foodgroups, which have their use on expedition server and in 60-100 bile range but it is another edge case.


Rifmaster wrote:Atm i feel like gluttony is just hopping between shellfish, game meats, and poultry (maybe domestic too now idk), while a lot of food groups are just too tedious to make and are just never used, along with the fact that they don't have restore foods.


Indeed most of sessions is just hopping between few selected foodgroups, though it is not as narrow choice as you wrote. I can imagine gluttony sessions restricted to:
- fruit food with occasional jalapeno-based salad
- fruit food + berries + nuts + some random other food with occasional jalapeno-based salad
- pure Wild-Wings + Tenderboiled Terrine session with some non-restore poultry and game meat stuff, though there would be carrying weight issues here.
- shellfish only session with Surf&Turf as a restore[/quote]

Rifmaster wrote:Also perhaps the difference between making foods with the worst type of raw ingredient from a group and the best should be bigger, by that I mean that bear meat should give even more than rabbit meat and such, to further promote people using game meats for blood, shellfish for yb, etc. Atm you can just use the same food group for everything with very minor disadvantages

This, and also, make intermediate cooking somewhat more valuable.


JohnCarver wrote:Every foodgroup has a trailmix variant of 'snack food'
Every foodgroup has a restore food for itself.

That's not true for at least Fruit foodgroup and perhaps Dairy too.
JohnCarver wrote:Every foodgroup has low, medium, and difficult recipes which gives small, medium, and large amounts of biles.

As others have pointed out, medium recipes are not very well pronounced, there should be more difference within medium recipes depending on ingredients difficulty.
Most, except a few of difficult recipes are not worth it. Keep in mind that above some 600 biles it is points per inventory space that counts and that is including required restores.

Potato and pumpkin foodgroups have issues with weight. At certain ranges of biles it is weight that limits amount of items that can be loaded and given mediocre at most point yields they are not worth the effort.
Game meats foodgroup is also heavy but it's bile point yields at least compensate for it.
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Nsuidara » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:41 pm

Chrumps wrote:Berries
There is no better food in berries group than bajgiels, because Jelly Roll has higher reduction stats and more complicated production with somewhat rare ingredient (isinglass) and Jam Sandwich is complicated, expensive and kills the foodgroup.
I could consider using Jelly Roll in some edge cases, but it is not worth remembering anyway. Jam Sandwich makes no sense at all
I am OK with lack of cheap restore for berries, because this group is relatively easy to spam. Having jalapeno and sweets as only viable options is somewhat balancing.

Nuts and Seeds
The two foods worth making are Bajgiels with walnuts and Venison with Pickled Nuts, with the latter being dependant on rare ingredient.
Similar to berries in having no good restore and being easy to spam. I am OK with having no good restore.

Mushrooms
There are two good foods in this group with bajgiels being slightly better on practical side which is a combined effect of higher cost, larger amount of ingredients, higher foodgroup reduction stats, which may be or may be not fully compensated by lower F&F timer and sightly better stats.


I'm not agree about "I am OK with having no good restore."
because bajgiels values is smillars but looking for "restore food"
Mushrooms have easy made restore food and still easy spam too :)


Chrumps wrote:Slugs Bugs and Kritters
Again, bajgiels are the best, two other power foods in this group being foodgroup killers.
This is a foodgroup i did not count as worth making because bugs cannot be really spammed and quantity available is dependent on number of pots planted. It is also limited to blood and phlegm because of this.

agree, bugs cannot be really spammed but still can...
but if give me choose i still choose Mushrooms


BUT POINT IS JC SAID he unhappy because people dont made gluttony session... but most recipes take many times :P and not easy recipes
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby JohnCarver » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:39 am

Nice feedback guys. I'll be adjusting food values over the coming few weeks. my general plan is to raise foods in their own way to be with the competitive baseline established by Bajiels.
Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Perchik » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:08 am

When i take a look at food system for gluttony, i see that this planned as tier-system like that:
0. Just eat things from floor, easy to get 20+
1. Simple cooking: Simple recipes, only available for 1 food type per gluttony session, but fast full&fed up. Becoming useless after 50 biles.
2. Intermediate Cooking: More complicated recipes, same stats, but you will need to craft&eat more, longer full&fed so you need to plan eat combos. Good for 100+
3. After 100+ there are some more recipes, that will require next things from you if you want to get more stats: cap purity, think what to craft, collect uncommon ingredients, etc.

There are still some problems:
1. Not always really balanced: some foods give extremely much full fed, making recipe unusable.


What you can do:
First, there are some cool ideas in topic
Second, analyze mostly crafted&eaten things, number of crafts per crafting session, number of food type eaten per session, hardness of crafting will be your tools of balancing.
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Nsuidara » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:41 am

basic problem for me it's restore food for other groups only food groups where restore give Any Bellpeppers, Any Garlic
and little Any Poultry Egg but easy is Turkey Egg, but with Turkey Egg it's problem made many food with Slugs Bugs and Kritters (IF Buggy Bajgiel take only one bug :P)
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby trewka » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:01 pm

bajgiels you can easily slow down and reduce their spam if you cook them not in water but in oil, you can in any way you can only in some particular, donuts are cooked in my home in sunflower oil for example
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Nsuidara » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:27 am

trewka wrote:bajgiels you can easily slow down and reduce their spam if you cook them not in water but in oil, you can in any way you can only in some particular, donuts are cooked in my home in sunflower oil for example

I think that what you said it's wrost point view...
Foods no need nerfs, foods need change / update
because now many "ordinary" players ignore made gluttony session or prepare food took a many times, when you can't focus for other thinks...
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby Heffernan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:28 pm

am i the onl one that finds it bad we just got a mother-load of new foods aka Animals with Domestic meat, and YET the only restores are argopelter eggs and Marshmallow Chirp from Pinatas?

heck Jalapeno restore all but domestic meat maybe we can remove a useless restore and add dom meat?
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Heffernan wrote:am i the onl one that finds it bad we just got a mother-load of new foods aka Animals with Domestic meat, and YET the only restores are argopelter eggs and Marshmallow Chirp from Pinatas?

heck Jalapeno restore all but domestic meat maybe we can remove a useless restore and add dom meat?

Man, argopelter eggs are not that hard to farm.
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Re: [Prov] About "Food"

Postby MaxPlanck » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:10 pm

ZoddAlmighty wrote:Man, argopelter eggs are not that hard to farm.



I agree. think of all the monies you will make while farming argo eggs too. Unless you are just tossing valuables away just cause you only want eggs at the time.
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