Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Coveredwagon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:00 am

Salem is a great game and one of the things that would make it better in my opinion are more players. More people who buy from the cash shop, more people for our towns, more people to raid and more people to kill.

I worry that for a new starting player the freeze mechanic and figuring out how to fight it is a huge turn off before the game has even started. The mechanic is not self explaining and if people don't know the basics of Salem, which skills to get etc., then finding out how to fix freeze is a problem. I know, if that is enough to turn someone away from Salem, then maybe they haven't been the right player anyway. Non the less, even if someone only plays for a few weeks, they leave behind something they built and we all probably like seeing the random stuff in the wild.

I suggest we add getting up to the weaving skill and making the first Jute item into the tutorial to solve this. I would let people collect a bunch of reeds, make them combine them, learn up to weaving and make 1 jute item (either hat, chest or pants). That way newbs learn that they can weave reeds into fibre, they learn how to make clothes, but the tutorial doesn't fix everything for them and they still have to figure out that they need more clothes than that.

In my opinion the above fix would be a very long addition to the tutorial, at least it feels that way to me. So please come up with your suggestions, I would be happy to hear them.
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby gorniksam » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:13 am

Coveredwagon wrote:I suggest we add getting up to the weaving skill and making the first Jute item into the tutorial to solve this.

No, like no, no no no.
Why people want spoil that beautiful game?
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Dallane » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:45 am

Coveredwagon wrote: The mechanic is not self explaining and if people don't know the basics of Salem, which skills to get etc.


Players are given a information screen about freezing when they start to get cold. If they actually read it then they would get all the info they need.

I don't like the idea of making people choose a path in this game right off the bat. The tutorial is old and we have new mechanics but I don't see how making people play a solo salem experience would really improve the tutorial. The pop up help screens are really informative.

Part of what makes salem great is you have to do your research on how things work and what you want to do in this game.
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Kralith » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:13 pm

Dallane wrote:Part of what makes salem great is you have to do your research on how things work and what you want to do in this game.


Exactly!
This kind of playing sticked me from first second of the game.
And when i started, there was no tutorial, there was just "Oh here you are, observe and do."

Salem need player who are able to think not just to consume.
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Nsuidara » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:24 pm

i learn one... this game isn't for casual player :P
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Dallane » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:43 pm

I also think that the upcoming fixes will help a bit with cold.
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Coveredwagon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:46 pm

What you have to consider is that we are all "old" players. We experienced the game when the inventory had 16 slots and pockets and backpacks were the only way to carry more. We grew into all the current gameplay, we don't experience the game from a fresh start but from years of experience.

I also love exploring the mechanics and the need of doing research and preparation, but the freeze mechanic is a large entry hurdle for new players and doesn't handicap old players at all. I have the feeling it should be the other way around. A new player should be able to start playing the game without being confronted by that mechanic to early(the freeze mechanic hits very hard) and an old player should have to take real care of it, if he wants to get into the mountains, wants to raid certain bases, or maybe if he wants to be in one of the other biomes (like add -25 thermal on some biomes except snow).

I admit I didn't check the pop-up. I will check up on it when I get home, I am sorry for not doing that first.

PS:
I also have no problem with adding an additional problem for older players, like heatstroke if you wear more than a certain thermal during everbloom so that the old ones have to have 2 sets for different seasons. For me it's not that I want Salem to be easier because this mechanics doesn't affect me personally, I just think that a mechanic that old players don't even encounter and that is a killer for new players yields no benefit. I also played Don't Starve and they made it very well because they had other conditions that affected body temperature (different weather, day/night circle etc.).
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Dallane » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:46 pm

I think you need a more compelling argument other than "but new people need this". Saying new people won't like x doesn't really mean anything because x is more than likely not a problem once they play the game more as you have essentially admitted.

If your idea was something like "if there is a information popup in game then you should experience this in the tutorial" would make more sense I think. Making people advance their characters in the tutorial isn't really a way to "fix" a problem. However giving them basic exposure and a better warning of the wilder world would still give the salem spirit across. You could have a Indian frozen and you need to thaw him out or recover his winter cloths from a crate to give him. That way you are getting a very basic understanding of cold and receive the popup information about it. Players would come out of the tutorial with the idea that they will get cold and need basic clothing.
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Saugglocke » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:35 pm

The current tutorial is not intuitive, too difficult, too long, has annoying sound overlays (in case you were too fast) AND YOUR PROGRESS ISN'T SAVED! It even manages to frustrate players before they even started. Short: It's crap. The narrator is ok, though. If there wouldn't be the thermal problem, I'm convinced it would be way nicer to be dropped into the wilderness with no clue at all.

+1, I like the idea. Basically it allows inexperienced players to get going as it was before the thermal update.

PS: In my opinion a tutorial is important, but it needs to be very easy, self-explanatory, somewhat interesting and it should be OPTIONAL, as in every game...
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Re: Add making Jute clothes into the tutorial

Postby Kandarim » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:45 pm

the tutorial is intentionally annoying to stop you from spamming alts :)
back in the day, the 'tutorial' was the dockside where you start at. Now, we have the indian basecamp too - i'd argue things have improved, and I for one am not spawning hundreds of alts in a single night anymore :roll:
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