What discourages new players

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

What discourages new players

Postby pietrko » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:35 pm

Hey,
recently my roomate was looking while i was playing Salem, obviously I said all the good stuff about the game - that's its funny, complex and you can make fun of rednecks and black people.

He installed it and played 1 minute.
Reason for quit: "No pathfinding and movement is stupid".

He told me that it's a pain just to navigate in the world - I responend that pathfinding won't gonna happen - he said ok but diablo 2 didn't had pathfinding too and movement was fluent.

Movement is clunky that's a fact - it doesn't bother me now but that was also my impression when I was starting.
Suggestions:
  • If player is holding LMB - send automatic pos update without need to click (he would do it anyway)
  • Allow player to slide off obstacles. I mean instead of stopping player movement take his velocity vector and its component tangent to the obstacle - then move the char in this direction vector

What i meant by sliding:
Let N - vector normal (length 1) to the obstacle, V - player attempted move direction (lenght 1), M - actual displacement vector.

In case of player being near obstacle:
M = V - N*dot(N,V)
of course you can set some cutoff if resulting M is very small.
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby Dallane » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:48 pm

pietrko wrote:Movement is clunky that's a fact


I don't think you understand what the word fact actually means. Stop being a moron it doesn't bother you now because there wasn't a problem to begin with. Like any other game you had to get use to it.
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:03 pm

Salem is aquired taste.
That being said i do not think the movement in the game is a problem at all. After a day or two it will be perfectly naturall.
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby pietrko » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:31 pm

"Like any other game you had to get use to it"

Dallane - did your parents pet you with a baseball bat? (that would explain a lot u salty gnome).
Ofc after some time you're probably used to it - but it doesn't mean it was natural and ok.

MrsMeow said in her wisdom that it's virtually impossible for devs to take noob perspective on the game - I would say it's also impossible for you - so don't put your ugly face into every discussion.

If dev would listen only to smartasses like you - Salem will be forever stick with you ~30 venerable old pricks.

clunky - awkwardly solid, heavy, and outdated.

Checked it - it fits imho.

Anyway sharing what newbie wanted to say.
For god's sake - how can it be that you're still a moderator. Compare your message to ZoddAlmighy one - you said pretty much the same thing (tip: word "how" is the key )
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby Forungi » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:02 pm

If the movement discourages some players, then they were not fit for this game anyway.
Besides, the movement is completely fine.

Maybe you could explain indepth what you mean with clunky?
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby pietrko » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:21 pm

Is it a troll question?
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby Forungi » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:43 pm

pietrko wrote:Is it a troll question?


No I am honestly wondering what you mean with it, because movement is pretty straightforward.
You stand on point A, click on point B and move in a straight line towards it. What is clunky about it?
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby Dallane » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:54 pm

pietrko wrote:"Like any other game you had to get use to it"

Dallane - did your parents pet you with a baseball bat? (that would explain a lot u salty gnome).
Ofc after some time you're probably used to it - but it doesn't mean it was natural and ok.


Again you contradict yourself. You ***** about movement but then say it's ok since you got use to how the game functions. This is literally every game you will ever play. It's fine to say that someone had a bad experience because they didn't understand mechanics. However it's just dumb to say that this VERY straight forward mechanic needs changed because of this and then give out a arbitrary expression that most people won't understand. You give zero details on whats actually wrong other then spewing 3 or 4 general words. What is clunky? How is it awkwardly solid? What do you mean heavy? How is movement like this outdated? You don't give any sort of alternative or examples of how you would like movement to be. You made a bad thread with no real information in it.

Edit: Reread the OP and I saw your suggestion for sliding. This won't happen as collisions are a very large part of pvp and strategy in this game.

pietrko wrote:MrsMeow said in her wisdom that it's virtually impossible for devs to take noob perspective on the game - I would say it's also impossible for you - so don't put your ugly face into every discussion.


I believe she was talking about what was added to the game that they might of looked over from the eyes of a noob.

pietrko wrote:If dev would listen only to smartasses like you - Salem will be forever stick with you ~30 venerable old pricks.


Thank god you aren't in the 33rd and derailed your own thread.

pietrko wrote:clunky - awkwardly solid, heavy, and outdated.

Checked it - it fits imho.


See my first point.

pietrko wrote:Anyway sharing what newbie wanted to say.


He should of posted feedback himself.

pietrko wrote:For god's sake - how can it be that you're still a moderator. Compare your message to ZoddAlmighy one - you said pretty much the same thing (tip: word "how" is the key )


At this moment I'm posting as a moderator. Before I was posting as a regular player. If you have a issue with me being a moderator then you need to send a PM to Meow instead of posting about it
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:59 pm

My dream is to be a moderator but i'm a wanted criminal and i cannot help new players all the time since im evading the law.
Its hard to type in a pursuit. :(
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Re: What discourages new players

Postby pietrko » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Forungi wrote:
pietrko wrote:Is it a troll question?


No I am honestly wondering what you mean with it, because movement is pretty straightforward.
You stand on point A, click on point B and move in a straight line towards it. What is clunky about it?


Ok I don't like way the collision works - little bit unphysical.
Consider situation between A and B there is a barrel. It does not block your way completely - you would barrely scratch it going straight - anyway your char will stop like it was 10ton truck hitting solid wall.
I think that sliding off (gliding off) obstacle would be better way to go.
Or in case you go into wall with 15deg angle instead of full stop you would be going tangent to the wall with smaller velocity.

To sum up:
What I meant by clunky:
For "outdated" part of meaning - in most modern games it works as I described (changing velocity vector/sliding
Wheras for being "heavy and solid" - collision between players and obstacles are always like collision betwen block of super hard steel and solid wall (in the sense both bodies are rigid and imapct causes full stop even if you barely scratch obstacle).
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