Salem

Our current sifting mechanic is bad. It feels like playing Wurm again - doing nothing but repeatedly pressing one button. I tried it once and after 10 minutes I went to sleep.

Please, let's not have any other mechanics like this. I assume that asking to make sifting automatic is futile. Therefore I want to suggest another option.
Seeing how fun smelting wrought iron can be if you have some company I think we could apply something similar to sifting.

A sluice box. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_mining:

Using a sluice box to extract gold from placer deposits has long been a very common practice in prospecting and small-scale mining. A sluice box is essentially a man made channel with riffles set in the bottom. The riffles are designed to create dead zones in the current to allow gold to drop out of suspension. The box is placed in the stream to channel water flow. Gold-bearing material is placed at the top of the box. The material is carried by the current through the volt where gold and other dense material settles out behind the riffles. Less dense material flows out of the box as tailings.

Sounds easy - build a sluice box, put it in a river and keep filling with rubble. However, I'm pretty sure devs have already considered it and decided against it. Probably because it would be too easy. So it needs to be spiced up a bit.

You don't put a sluice box in the river - you put it on the ground. And have to pour water on top of it. The faster / more water you pour the faster it processes the rubble - the box would have a meter for amount of water which would decrease quickly. Pouring water should not be instant - it should take 2-5 seconds. Now, the trick is - one person pouring water would achieve efficiency slightly lower than manually panning. But have 2 people pouring it and efficiency would increase 3-4 times. Have a third person dropping rubble and you get a nice factory.

Sluice box could also come with a slightly lower chance to find gems. And maybe a chance to find rocks / salt / granite, so that they keep filling output window and have to be cleaned often - with the full output window you just waste rubble and get nothing.

Or we could make shifting pan hold 1 item. whenever you discover some gold you have to take it out before using it again. But in between rubble you dont need to click anything. How is that sound? If not, something less cumbersome as he propose is still better.
Pronce, and all the people doing shifting, have a point. I havent tried it but everybody is unhappy with it.

This sounds like a very fun mechanic and a nice idea.

I understand that sifting is not for everybody. However, MANY players enjoy repetitive clicking in games. Many games refuse to automate the simplest of actions so players can click more. I think sifting is a bit 'too much' clicking. But I also personally think chopping a tree would be more fun if it were say 10% a swing and each swing of the axe required you clicked the tree. Complete with a wind up and one big swing animation against the tree.

The point is that we are trying to make 'playstyles' for everybody. This is the main reason that sifting is not 'required'. There is nothing you MUST do for sifting. It is simply an optional thing that I have noticed some players love and are begging me not to automate, and some people could care less to have repetitive clicks.

To close out the same point. I also think the Finery Forge is the best thing to ever happen to this game. I think the fact there is something that gives massive benefit to teamwork and coordination between Salemites is extremely fun. However, I have the same situation where many players think that a building that allows and encourages multiple people has no business in this game because it has 'killed hermits' and that everything in Salem should be able to be done with a lower level of concentration.

To each their own. As stated, my goal is to have as many different industries with as many different play styles as possible. This way players will specialize if not for no other reason than they find one particular thing in the game that much more fun than another.

JohnCarver wrote:I have noticed some players love and are begging me not to automate

Seriously? Like who? Sifting is just carpal tunnel waiting to happen.

Potjeh wrote:Seriously? Like who?

The same kind of gaming crowd that likes to play Diablo III because it requires them to left click the same monster 100 times to defeat it, instead of just having the character automatically start swinging and continue to do so until it dies.

Given that in the past you have advocated heavily for more task that involve more APM. I'm surprised you are on the click once and watch your screen for 10 minutes band-wagon.\

I really see both sides of the fence on this. The fact is that there are a million things in salem that you do one click and wait. There are almost no things in salem that ask you to rapid-click. There are also macros for those who really hate it to which I'm not going to punish for as long as somebody can respond to me in a timely manner when I appear. So it seems like something reasonable to leave alone and not banish the "Clicker-faction" to a click-less salem world again.

isnt easier just use autoclicker?

i like sifting and i don't like your idea.

In conclusion,
Its also worth pointing out that I expected for Sifting to be the 'least fun' thing that we implemented. Since it is essentially 'treasure hunting' with the gems, gold, and glass industry etc. it made sense to me that there would be a 'minority' of people who were engaged in it. Thus leaving a reason for boomsticks as most players will simply want to blow up their rubble boulders than deal with it, and the gems/gold wouldn't saturate the market because, again, a majority of the playerbase would find the mechanic not 'their thing'.

The fact that a significantly larger % of the population "enjoyed" doing it than I expected was a surprise, and turned out to be a nice thing. it has also made me wonder what else I could add that uses more clicks over less.

I'm all for higher APM, but only with actions that involve decision making. Starcraft is so intense because it requires such high APM, but all of those actions need to be expertly executed. IMO that's the main reason for it's lasting popularity. There is an element of this in using fineries, which makes them infinitely more fun than sifting even though they too are very click intensive.

Potjeh wrote:I'm all for higher APM, but only with actions that involve decision making. Starcraft is so intense because it requires such high APM, but all of those actions need to be expertly executed. IMO that's the main reason for it's lasting popularity.

Sure. I think there is an argument for that type of gameplay to find a home as well. Obviously not referencing an RTS element of Salem. But why not an industry like a turkey coop that has items ever shifting in a complicated and strategic manner which you must quickly arrange through rapid interaction and high APM to yield the final result.

I'm sure many would hate such a thing. But I also think there is a subset of players who would very much enjoy that industry and gravitate right to it.