Salem

Salem is currently a very DRY country, not only do we lack even a single DROP of alcohol, we haven't any tea, cider, root-beer, milk, coffee, or anything other then the plainest water imaginable, and drinking said water dose nothing. This represents a gaping hole in the games historical theme as colonial America was absolutely drunk off it's ass, and worse it's a wasted design space too. In Contrast with food the drink space is virgin territory, and it should be developed.

Like Food I think their should be an Gluttony use for Drinks and a 'Snack' aka outside of gluttony usage that is different, and both uses are different from foods uses, drink should complement food, never replace it.

The Gluttony usage I'd like to see is one that has emerged from the new food patch. With the massive rebalanced of foods several recipes were made very different from all others, I call them 'reset buttons' and you have probably noticed them yourself, foods that rather then carrying a food-group debuff have a +100% buff to a food-group. These foods consistently have low humor gluttony values, so their usage is clearly meant to be strategic in chaining together long high impact gluttony sessions, they fulfill a special role in gluttony other foods can't.

But this would be a great role for Drinks to fill instead, the thematic nature of having a drink 'wash down your food' is just perfect. And we get a much cleaner division between what food dose, and what drinks do, neither usurping the others roles but both being of value in gluttony sessions. With all the food-groups that exist a dozen different drinks would be needed, but if alcoholic and non-alcoholic options are on the table then many can easily be concocted, their could even be some degree of Tier structure in the reset button effect, a +50% 'partial' reset might make a decent low level drink, with a more advanced full reset for the same food-group later down the skill tree and with much higher material costs.

The out of Gluttony usage is a bit more open, I could see several good uses for drinks. They could do a Humor redistribution in which one humor gets converted to another without a change in the cumulative totals. This would increase the flexibility and efficiency of snack foods without eliminating the need for the base food. Alternatively Drinks could take over the Full&Feed-up reduction effect from Berry-Mash (which could just be renamed Berry-Mash Wine with virtually no change in recipe). But it's hard to see how this would be interesting enough given it's one dimensional nature, the unlimited availability of water would also mean it can't be allowed to do this (unless it was perhaps trollish low, like 1 second of drinking water reduced F&F by 1 second). Another alternative could be a max humor buffing effect, essentially an inverse of mushroom poisoning, or a mix of buffing one humors max at the expense of another. Again this is a bit thematic of 'liquid courage' being applied to the character along with inebriation. I'm not of one mind here, I could see one effect being applied to alcoholic beverages, and a totally separate one to the non-alcoholic ones.

I can get behind liquid courage in the alcohol system. However, I consider the rest to be stealing from already implemented design space, and therefore, giving less diversity to the foods. I remain optimistic that a better use for drinks, with a more concrete system, will present itself. Each time we sit down to create a use for drink, we come up a bit short. There are enough things we 'know' we want. So forcing a new system at this time doesn't seem necessary.

well I'm glad to hear you're thinking about making a drinking system. it seems quite odd that so much focus is put on food, while drinking isn't even a thing really.

Stealing is such a strong word

Think of it more as a "redistribution" within the design space of Gluttony.

It dose sound like your embrace a strong mechanical distinction between food and drink which I find very encouraging, the last thing I'd want would be for drinks to just be foods in all but name.

Personally I'd be real disappointed if Drink didn't touch on gluttony some how (it would be like having a game called Salem with no Witches in it), if their is still room for gluttony mechanics to grow so that drinks are both mechanically unique in gluttony without usurping any of the food gluttony mechanics then I'd embrace that. The question is just "is gluttony mechanically done?" now with all future growth to just be more recipes that follow existing patterns. I'd been assuming this as I'd have though this latest patch having been focused on that area put the system in your desired state of completion, so the only option was moving mechanics around rather then adding them. But perhaps this is not the case.

Can you enlighten us with some of the drink ideas that fell short? Were you trying both in-gluttony and out-of-gluttony uses and do you embrace the idea of drinks having dual usage, though it may necessitate two whole mechanics rather then just one.

You could drink a lot and then piss over walls, at braziers to put them out

Procne wrote:You could drink a lot and then piss over walls, at braziers to put them out

HOLD MY BEER, I'M GOING TO TAKE OUT THIS BURNING THING!

Being that the concept of gluttony and humours are rather confusing to newcomers already, why not just simplify it with drinks? Have foods deal with yellow and black bile and have drinks deal with blood and phlegm. It'll still make sense because the act of gluttony includes the over-consumption of drinks as well. It'll make the game less complicated and it'll even add drinks into the game. However, what I don't understand is why our settlers are resorting to gluttony in the first place, when they're supposed to be religious. Gluttony is a sin, as is killing people, raiding them, and scalping them; though it's all encourage and beneficial in this game. Really hope you guys being to level the fields of what kind of game we're really playing, because right now it doesn't feel like "Salem", but rather a remake of Haven & Hearth with the graphical implementation of the Salem witch trails era.

Trenix wrote: why not just simplify it with drinks? Have foods deal with yellow and black bile and have drinks deal with blood and phlegm.

Why have 4 humors at all? Why not just have one point called your 'level' and then the higher that gets the higher all our proficiencies are?

No. Salem is rooted in what are arguably overly complex mechanics. Most might not like them, but those who stay, are staying because they do.

JohnCarver wrote:

Trenix wrote: why not just simplify it with drinks? Have foods deal with yellow and black bile and have drinks deal with blood and phlegm.

Why have 4 humors at all? Why not just have one point called your 'level' and then the higher that gets the higher all our proficiencies are?

No. Salem is rooted in what are arguably overly complex mechanics. Most might not like them, but those who stay, are staying because they do.

Well than just have drinks work their way into the already system we have of regenerating humours and leveling them through gluttony. They'll basically be like another food. To add it in another way just wont work because of the already existing systems we have. To add another mechanic will just continue to overly complicated the game. But you're right, my previous suggestion was trying to make gluttony and humours little too simplified. I'm not asking for a simple game, but a better idea. Sometimes that means we must formulate bad ideas to come up with a better one. It's part of brainstorming, which I know nowadays many companies don't do or have enough creative minds take part in it.

Trenix wrote:
They'll basically be like another food.

Then why wouldn't I just make them another food?

We will come up with something good, and when we do, we will implement it. For now, we are not interesting in cramming the same item types, with different graphics and names into existing systems for the sake of 'giving them a purpose'. Don't get me wrong, I love adding food, adding inspirationals, adding skills. etc. And we will keep doing that, but adding 'new mechanics' that simply fit in 'old mechanics' is where I draw the line.

I am considering a Hydration system, where your character must stay hydrated, and if he does not, then there would be penalties assigned. Various drinks offering certain levels of hydration, while simultaneously providing passive humor regeneration would be one way I could see drinks coming in, effecting current mechanics, while adding another dynamic to where you eventually take severe penalties for 'thirst' if you completely ignore it.