Map Size Fixes

[Xelmoth]

ah I forgot to mention the travel itself:

5) if you are traveling fast via hors carriage you could be loaded to and extra plain (like boston in the suggestion) der would be a road with random problems like: wolf, bear, hostile npcs boulder or trees in the way of the road. If you would to introduce some obstacle whyle fast traveling.

though this is a interesting concept I'm sure most players wouldn't like additional time sinks

no this would be an option withing the expanded fast travel. This suggestion would mean reducing 2h oer 12 h walking to 1 or 5 minuits instead on 2 seconds. so it is still a shortening.

[Nictos]

In haven there is fast travel from village to village using sign posts. This would be no different. There was a such thing as travel weariness though and a required a large amount of agility, increasing the further you go.

IMO it's okay to reference Salem's predecessor.

[agentlemanloser]

Thus far Darwoth's idea seems most sensible. Simply institute a series of smaller frontier outpost towns in the center of the map and one or two hours from each corner. The carriage system could be implemented on top of this, allowing travel between Providence and outposts, as well as to participating towns, for a nominal fee (a few silver with no baggage, and a few hundred with gear, say). Player established and thus less reputable carriage lines could exist in tandem with an official system. The series of outposts, coupled with even a minor alteration in the length of time the scent charge remains active, would effectively shrink the map for tracking purposes without dislocating anyone (or requiring tedious triangulation). Moreover, the outposts could be fitted with their own small array of merchants and stalls, offering nice little alternatives to Providence.

That said, I think your ultimate solution would be to also reduce the size of the map somewhat, but as many have said, you shouldn't bother until a wipe is required. When you do, you can take a slightly smarter approach to map design that will make a spatially smaller map functionally larger through more intelligent natural barriers and a more realistic approach to biome size and distribution. That approach would make outposts important while still allowing a full map traverse for those willing to climb mountains, etc.

Finally, I wonder why the discussions must assume that the darkness's boundaries are static? I could easily imagine a dynamic push and pull between the civilized areas and the darkness based upon many factors, including churches. Moreover, making the darkness something other than a simple western wall might be interesting as well. If a large enough cluster of map tiles has no occupants and no traffic, after a time a pocket of darkness could form. This would, of course, require a redesign of the dark/light aesthetic in the game, but since that is on your radar anyway, why not make the darkness a bit more fluid?

[DarkNacht]

What I would like to see is:
Horses and carriages: yes
Fast travel: no
Provance teleport: disabled

I've seen several people post this as a "solution" in multiple threads if "hub" teleport is removed what mechanic would you believe would replace it?

Horses and carriages

[ImpalerWrG]

Most folks are commenting on carriage/fast-travel and how it will affect tracking a crime scent. But JC's original intent in this thread seems to be to encourage people to use the (rather lame) challenge authority mechanism which faces the barrier of not knowing the towns location.

An elegant solution is to just be given a 'town scent' from the Boston NPC, you would get to choose which town to track naturally. Thus if we have a fast-travel system that is good enough for crime tracking it will also be good enough to find a major town too. The name of the town scent would be "Stench of Taxation without Representation"

Also with regard to this notion of having some distant outposts that can be traveled too from Boston. I'm quite worried that these will be walled up or camped by the players that don't want to be tracked. Also tracking would need to give some kind of distance indicator for them to be of much use, else the person tracking would need to do elaborate triangulations (which requires an extensive map) to know which outpost to actually walk out of for the shortest trip. Lastly would the number of outposts needed be exceedingly high? If the goal is a 2 hour trip to get to anyone then that would probably dozens and dozens of outposts across the map.

I'm much more in favor of player built and player managed travel methods. In H&H we had problems involving multiple cross-roads per city to jump around inside the city, so at the very least I'd limit the travel structure to one per city. Mayoral control of the whole process is important too, no link between towns is possible without the consent of both mayors.

I very much approve of putting Boston on it's own 'plane', you were certainly going to do something like that for Newbie Island (if you don't it will become Newbie Slaughtering Island) so why not Boston too. It removes a whole mess of problems.

[Darwoth]

those of you that want to eliminate the only social, event and trade hub in the game in favor of "player built" **** that will remain unused are idiots that need telescopes welded to your face and even then you would be to shortsighted to see your own *****.

[Blood]

I agree with Darwoth, in Salems current situation implementing player built cities is just a recipe for disaster and shouldn't be mentioned again for a very long time.
On topic i would like the version of frontier zones where we head out to, but expanded upon that where its a carriage that stops at providence for say 10 minutes picks up people and then rides out at a incredible speed to the next frontier zone.

Have each zone a non pvp little town decoration mainly, but also with its own set of carriages traveling to it on, sort of like flight paths from wow/swtor etc etc. The Salem twist would be carriage heists, where the people on the carriage can attack each other or you can block one of the routes to the frontier to ambush it, multiple routes to one place so to limit people just blocking it for the lols. To help make the system rewarding for people we could also add a single guard with a rifle average stats 100hp or something and/or add a small lock box with silver from stall trades of the day. Manage to defeat the guard and get the box? you get your name on a bounty list that increases the value of your scalp to the executioner when you die, so if you want to rob carriages for silver be prepared to become a wanted person where more people have incentives to hunt you down.

That's my 2 silver, i am not a fan of shrinking the world or making churches useless, but the travel time should definitely be shorter to reach a base not this 6 hours+ just walking non stop we have now.

[Whyamihere]

Option 1 sounds like the worst of the 3 to me you would likely piss off a lot of people with that. You would have the people you moved mad at losing the resources and terrains that they probable built their bases around and the people who suddenly find a full size and fully defended town show up next to them over night competing for the same resources with no chance to take them out while they where small if they wanted to.

Option 2 I suppose would make less people mad except if you were one of the unlucky ones already living in darkness. What would happen to people who are though would you be willing to move their towns out of darkness cause I could see a lot of them quitting over finding out they where losing months of work and having to start from scratch.

Option 3 with the player built carriage house I can't see helping at all If I have to walk 8 hours to build the house in the first place how is that going to make it more likely for player to get justice or challenge authority than it is now. I also don't think it would be likely for a hard core vet raider living on the edge of the world to build one by their base to let people get there quicker. Maybe something along the lines of what Darwoth suggested would work though where there is set outpost points you could travel to dispersed around the map to make it work.

Edit: Just thought of another thing with the player built houses. If you just got everything of value stolen from you and are after justice you probable would not have the resources left to build a very expensive building anyways.

[Michael]

WIPE THE MAP! WIPE IT ALL! MUAHAHAHA

[Xelmoth]

Edit: Just thought of another thing with the player built houses. If you just got everything of value stolen from you and are after justice you probable would not have the resources left to build a very expensive building anyways.

exactly. I can't think how faster travel could help in this situation. thats why I suggested sherrifs could be paid by taxes or general bountys from everyone that is willing to pay (even in advance just in case they will be killed and therefor couldn't afford it after)(like an insurance: I paid 100 eggs und 25 silver and whoever killed that person that killed me gets it)

the big towns getting a part of the tax income. I don't see why player themselfs wouldn't build stations for the travel. If a town wants to challenge another there could be the afford to build something (outpost or whatever). You could even imagine companies of players that are building this. They would charge other player to use it. Even a shareholding system could be possible. If someone build such a station near your claim. you can attack it or become part of it's ownership system (to travel cheaper or get a part of the charge for the others that has to pas by. Other player allready suggested stations with limited range so you would have to build some kind of road or network. any player using it has to pay depending on distance and so on. Any player helping with the upkeep is getting part of the mony that comes in. stations often used could be profitable ...