Gameplay Design Rants (tm) - Permadeath, Game Loops and Flow

[Feone]

Well it doesn't matter to me how strong the war players will end up as long as the sandcastle people get left alone. Everyone wins.

..you as a player create the rules and you are responsible for you actions...

What people should realise is that just because they can, doesn't mean they should. With great power becomes great responsibility. We are all responsible for our actions.
Not to the ingame character, but to eachoter as individual persons behind the monitors.

In my experience if you give players the ability to do something, it'll get done.

If you give players the option to ruin it for others, it'll be done too. The key is to provide adequate options for defending against it.

[Syndarn]

i don't disagree.
But from my point of view giving more options is only managing the symptoms and not tackling the core problem.

EDIT: and BTW that is also a very common problem in our modern society.

[Dallane]

That only works if people work toward that goal. If thats the case then everything in salem has worked out fine. Since only a few people are interested in defying the tribal rule. Want to change that? Enable the people who want to play war and support them? Don't ***** if you don't like how the community is now. Everyone is partly to blame for it.

Bah.. blaming someone and getting mixed up in what has happened in the past is meaningless, it will get us nowhere. What is inportant is what will people do now? everything can change. But that means that people who are considered griefers ingame understand what they are doing, and take a more considerate approach in the future, and not drag it out on people who don't deserve it, nor want to be part of it.

As stated before the players can change this. However they clearly are not interested.

[Syndarn]

That might be true Dallane, or then they just don't realise what they are doing in their selfish ignorance.

[Dallane]

That might be true Dallane, or then they just don't realise what they are doing in their selfish ignorance.

They know and people play along with it. They don't care

[nonsonogiucas]

Gentlement please...


First and foremost. I resent being called a sockpuppet, and especially a Tribe sockpuppet. The fact I don't have any bad feeling towards the way they play the game doesn't mean I'm playing or am affiliated with the Tribe.

I do have bad feelings towards the way some of them use the forums, bossing around using bad manners for the sole purpose of amplifying their ego. But I also see most of the proclaimed "victims" use the same manners in an effort to make verbal justice. That's all I have to say about the Tribe.

If the smugness of less then a handful of players alone is enough to ruin a game (and I'm not convinced it is) I blame it on the game. I long to see the Tribe challenged because that would mean that anyone can challenge everyone and have fun doing it.

I also believe Tribe players would love to play a game that is well balanced and fun, even if it means losing a character or a town. If a Tribe member rage quits after a well played, fair battle then we'll know who the bad apple was.

That said...

The thread started as a theoretical analysis but is now rapidly going off topic.
Since I believe that the original argument of how to relate Permadeath with other game mechanics is fairly extinguished I would kindly ask anyone that doesn't feel like contributing to the original discussion to stop posting in this thread.

Thanks

[Syndarn]

They know and people play along with it. They don't care

Well they sure make me quite angry if they do. Not that you would care anyways.

...contributing to the original discussion...

Sorry if i took it off topic, just wanted to point out where i believe the core problem was.

Anyway.. there could be somekind of religion based "karma or sin" system. Wich would be divided into good deeds and bad deeds.
If you commit crimes you get somekind of serious debuff, idk perhaps (random chance to get struck by gods lightning or something and pass out, and debuff in biling up your character).. and if you do good deeds you get a buff of some sort, perhaps movement or higher chance to find good forageables or stump spawns, or something else.. idk.

But meh.. still think would be good if people would just man up and do the right thing instead of beeing douchebags.

[Feone]

They know and people play along with it. They don't care

Well they sure make me quite angry if they do. Not that you would care anyways.

...contributing to the original discussion...

Sorry if i took it off topic, just wanted to point out where i believe the core problem was.

Anyway.. there could be somekind of religion based "karma or sin" system. Wich would be divided into good deeds and bad deeds.
If you commit crimes you get somekind of serious debuff, idk perhaps (random chance to get struck by gods lightning or something and pass out, and debuff in biling up your character).. and if you do good deeds you get a buff of some sort, perhaps movement or higher chance to find good forageables or stump spawns, or something else.. idk.

But meh.. still think would be good if people would just man up and do the right thing instead of beeing douchebags.

A 100% negative debuff for crimes would seriously discourage being evil. I'd rather see evilness have repercussions in other areas. Less effectiveness at peaceful tasks maybe, or perhaps slowly reversing the effects of darkness. It'd be nice if the most evil players would not be right around boston picking on newbies.

[Syndarn]

Well it would have to be bad enough so you can't just go around it by creating another account or having a alt to do the good stuff.. while the battle char doesn't do anything other than beeing evil.

[Horis]

debuffs are cheap.

Permadeath is the feature this game hinges on. It is a way of reducing the competition to harmless. Let's build on that rather than water it down.

Death only comes from other players. Once you die, you have little or no chance of reducing the threat of the same killer return to grief your assets when your kin inherits them. This creates a hopeless situation for deaded players and there is likely a long period of time required for the player to "level" up and feel relief from the loss.

The way the tribe seems to play the game is by using their focus on pvp to create a form of justice that is biased to their whims. We also need to learn from their system of play since it is how the game is designed. It is unlikely that as the game is now, there is room for another "tribe". Players that want to play the tribe's way just join them rather than form a competitive alternative. It's not that players don't care about the pvp going on. It's more like they can't play the game as effectively because they are not interested in spending their game time with a canoe on their backs hunting players.

I remember playing Salem in 2012 and there were some people who were offering to take tasks hunting down murderers. I think it would be very interesting to have a bounty system with the reward amount set by the amount of crimes that have scents. The player will follow scents to the criminal and collect them (or just the first scent) and can trade the scent to any player who wants to collect the bounty. The bounty value is set by the game but is paid by the player who wants the deed done. A stall or billboard with wanted posters can be displayed in town. This would also feed the ego of the most proficient killers and criminals. This extends the play beyond just death and nothing after it.