Fundamentals?

[TotalyMeow]

Removed a couple pages of derails. Guys, this is serious business, let's keep the paranoid rants and flame fests out of this particular thread, mkay?

I don't know, I'm getting the feeling some of you don't understand what's being proposed here? We're thinking of adding some small benefit to your proficiencies for the work you do. This will not replace inspirationals, a mechanic which we love and which makes Salem unique, but I've always wondered why planing boards doesn't make me better at planing boards. Or maybe one of you has a better idea. Or maybe it's perfect the way it is.

As for the gluttony, we are not planning to institute some system that somehow totally negates all the work we've put into making it require some major effort to advance and be a raider. We were thinking that the current Gluttony system is fun, but still very difficult to learn, and a lot of people still don't like it, and why do we have to have Gluttony and Regen separate, and why does food need to be SOOO complicated??? It's so difficult to add new foods right now and see them balanced. Food is still not balanced.

This idea of cravings would make ALL foods relevant as being able to match the exact food would give a bigger bonus than just getting the food group right. We have ideas for making tables more significant with this system. And then there are so many possibilities for adding things to increase or reroll those cravings or push the odds of getting food from one or another group up or down. And food would certainly be easier to balance; we could much more easily add orchard fruit foods, domestic animal foods, and all those other cabbage/veggie foods we originally wanted so that group can be split in two.

[Nsuidara]

Removed a couple pages of derails. Guys, this is serious business, let's keep the paranoid rants and flame fests out of this particular thread, mkay?

I don't know, I'm getting the feeling some of you don't understand what's being proposed here? We're thinking of adding some small benefit to your proficiencies for the work you do. This will not replace inspirationals, a mechanic which we love and which makes Salem unique, but I've always wondered why planing boards doesn't make me better at planing boards. Or maybe one of you has a better idea. Or maybe it's perfect the way it is.

As for the gluttony, we are not planning to institute some system that somehow totally negates all the work we've put into making it require some major effort to advance and be a raider. We were thinking that the current Gluttony system is fun, but still very difficult to learn, and a lot of people still don't like it, and why do we have to have Gluttony and Regen separate, and why does food need to be SOOO complicated??? It's so difficult to add new foods right now and see them balanced. Food is still not balanced.

This idea of cravings would make ALL foods relevant as being able to match the exact food would give a bigger bonus than just getting the food group right. We have ideas for making tables more significant with this system. And then there are so many possibilities for adding things to increase or reroll those cravings or push the odds of getting food from one or another group up or down. And food would certainly be easier to balance; we could much more easily add orchard fruit foods, domestic animal foods, and all those other cabbage/veggie foods we originally wanted so that group can be split in two.

Now this was explained in a simple way, it is a good idea to additional remuneration of players for doing the same thing - for example, to produce 200 wrought bars? what you can give? + speed for product? + pure? Do not make the X Bar 1? i think is immposible xD
but good idea

glttony
i use only Deviled Beaver and Smokers + Nutcracker Suite ... why? because for me it is difficult to do other food too cumbersome
why? because need more ingredients different for made this other food and give low gluttony points - when deviled for me is easy and Nutcracker Suite is good for meat
meybe made recipe more type "Nutcracker Suite" for other group ?

[Nikixos]

Are you saying deviled beavers should be nerfed??

[eldoran]

the more i think about the two purposed ideas the more i like them. as for now i usally stick to some sort of food wich works for me and totaly ignore the other foods and foodgroups. as witch the proposed system i would have an incentive to have more variance and to use food i normally wouldnt. and to have a samll prof gain while doing the appropriate tasks would give me a sense of progression for my work even if i cant use the fruits of my work. i really like these ideas as they could give the game more depth and fun. and as far as i can see it it wouldnt shallow the existing systems cause as yous said the insp system would still be in place and important for leveling your profs since the gain would be much faster. and the gluttony system as it is is dificult to understand and leads to the mentioned problem that you can easily ignore a lot of foods if you have a reson to use a wider range that wouldn't shallow the gluttony system but increase the system.

hope you will work on these systems

[lachlaan]

Nothing should or shouldn't be nerfed just going on that. JC said meat was intended to scale with metalworking progress and be a bit faster to improve on, and the others are meant to have benefits as you get bigger and bigger gluttony sessions, and thus need to diversify. Problem is that some restores are a LOT more accessible than others, and while I don't mind the place gluttony is in as I glutton just fine for a fair amount of brain-numbing food spamming, I do feel the current state of restore foods makes some food groups a lot more desirable for minmaxers or lazy people alike.

An interesting rework in the future might be nice if done right, perhaps code a standalone demo of the concept for people to test before working on implementing it ingame. However a temporary solution could be adding some diminishing returns to each specific restore modifier. Bellpeppers and garlics could restore 0.5-1% less per subsequent usage. Or whatever value makes sense when crunching the numbers. Either that or start food group debuffs at 150% effectiveness or something for the first few restore events so that once the bonus is gone other groups are more desirable to glutton.

[Procne]

and to have a samll prof gain while doing the appropriate tasks would give me a sense of progression for my work even if i cant use the fruits of my work

You are doing something wrong then. In Salem the fruits of your work is why you are doing the work. If you are doing some work and won't use the fruits of it - why the hell are you even doing it? Salem and HnH are the only sandbox games I know where you do the work only because you need the fruits of it. And not craft hundreds items, which you are going to throw away, just to get some skill gains / experience.

[Nikixos]

And not craft hundreds items, which you are going to throw away, just to get some skill gains / experience.

Fortunately for us that is not what was proposed as inspirational hoarding is expected to be the main method of raising proficiencies

[Eivind]

One can log on, do 2-4 hours of 'work' for their town, log off and quite simply say to that they have 'worked' on Salem. I feel that this is perhaps a core issue with towns in general that has been missing. The idea that you can get 'lazy' townmembers who simply consume more of the 'work' than they contribute is quite simply possible because sometimes the burden of producing meaningful progress in the game itself is not worth the effort.

I propose new building for town - gallows. Town members can vote on someone and he can be hanged without murder debuff.

[TotalyMeow]

and to have a samll prof gain while doing the appropriate tasks would give me a sense of progression for my work even if i cant use the fruits of my work

You are doing something wrong then. In Salem the fruits of your work is why you are doing the work. If you are doing some work and won't use the fruits of it - why the hell are you even doing it? Salem and HnH are the only sandbox games I know where you do the work only because you need the fruits of it. And not craft hundreds items, which you are going to throw away, just to get some skill gains / experience.

I do think he was referring to the fact that sometimes you cut down 50 trees and then some town mate comes and chips most of them for his own fields when you were about to refresh all the board piles and now you have to cut down more trees. I know I've always found myself to be a pauper in a town but pretty rich as a hermit. Mostly my fault as I'm afraid of being too greedy and overcompensate, but it would have been nice in those situations to get some extra character advancement out of it.

[Nikixos]

One can log on, do 2-4 hours of 'work' for their town, log off and quite simply say to that they have 'worked' on Salem. I feel that this is perhaps a core issue with towns in general that has been missing. The idea that you can get 'lazy' townmembers who simply consume more of the 'work' than they contribute is quite simply possible because sometimes the burden of producing meaningful progress in the game itself is not worth the effort.

I propose new building for town - gallows. Town members can vote on someone and he can be hanged without murder debuff.

Lol town of salem