Gameplay Design Rants (tm) - Permadeath, Game Loops and Flow

[Feone]

Am I the only one who sees nonsonogiucas as another tribe sock-puppet, along with the new "developers", aimed to liven up the forums and start some conversations?

If I can have an interesting conversation with a Tribe sockpuppet I don't see the problem.

[Dallane]

Of course that would require that each profession had its own unique "end-game" content, for a carpenter for example could be the ability to repair walls above 100%, for a tailor the ability to slot gear (that is already in the game), for a miner the ability to mine even deeper.

What do you think?

I think that everyone should be able to make the same things BUT some people should be able to do them better. You can't make a bunch of different classes because us hermits out there would be rolling with multiple accounts and characters trying to keep up.

To kinda set it apart a bit more and add some fun, perhaps after investing in a skill options would open up for additional items others can't make or you would be more likely to discover rare inspirations or create a *inspired* type object which would be like a critical roll to make a improved version of the object you were crafting. Say additional skill points at a lower inspiration cost or a artifice item will additional stats at a lower chance at fail.

This is were our basically bare skills come in. Skill level and quality of materials should go into the end result of items. Again I will take mining as a example. It would be interesting for walls underground to be stronger then others depending on where the ore is in the mine and the deeper you go underground. Having more of a investment in the skill should let you get into the harder rock. Hermits can still have a general character because typically ore will be easier to mine at the top but they would still be capped the farther they go depending on their skills. Meanwhile someone who is a member of a town whos main function to mine would be able to dig deeper and more efficiently.

This would also allow someone who has enjoyed mining as a hermit transition into a town looking for a miner.

Maybe the skills could determine if the player is under or above the cap to determine the purity of ore they are pulling out of the node and thats assuming if the node has any purity to begin with.

From there they or someone else would be a smith who depending on their skill and the quality of the ore would be able to craft a a item better then your lone person who hasn't invested the points into said skills.

This can basically transition to all professions to make a deep and varied economy.

[Feone]

I think that everyone should be able to make the same things BUT some people should be able to do them better. You can't make a bunch of different classes because us hermits out there would be rolling with multiple accounts and characters trying to keep up.

To kinda set it apart a bit more and add some fun, perhaps after investing in a skill options would open up for additional items others can't make or you would be more likely to discover rare inspirations or create a *inspired* type object which would be like a critical roll to make a improved version of the object you were crafting. Say additional skill points at a lower inspiration cost or a artifice item will additional stats at a lower chance at fail.

This is were our basically bare skills come in. Skill level and quality of materials should go into the end result of items. Again I will take mining as a example. It would be interesting for walls underground to be stronger then others depending on where the ore is in the mine and the deeper you go underground. Having more of a investment in the skill should let you get into the harder rock. Hermits can still have a general character because typically ore will be easier to mine at the top but they would still be capped the farther they go depending on their skills. Meanwhile someone who is a member of a town whos main function to mine would be able to dig deeper and more efficiently.

This would also allow someone who has enjoyed mining as a hermit transition into a town looking for a miner.

Maybe the skills could determine if the player is under or above the cap to determine the purity of ore they are pulling out of the node and thats assuming if the node has any purity to begin with.

From there they or someone else would be a smith who depending on their skill and the quality of the ore would be able to craft a a item better then your lone person who hasn't invested the points into said skills.

This can basically transition to all professions to make a deep and varied economy.

I think that would be a good way to do it. It's also very much in line with the type of gameplay Salem offers. It's also a good way to add significant depth (no pun intended.) to this sort of system without overcomplicating it for newbies.

A way to build railways underground to transport ore to the surface more effectively would also be great. If digging very deep and far becomes a significant factor in the efficiency or quality of things you find there should also be a way to reduce the (boring) walk back and forth to retrieve it. Along with this other types of infrastructure to vary the task of building a decent mine could also be interesting. Things like providing air shafts, random hazards that can be dug into (and/or prevented/prepared for) and prospecting for good directions to dig into.

[Syndarn]

Hello

If you take away freedoms by implementing mechanics to prevent stuff, then the game becomes less sandboxy and looses it's uniqueness.

All people have different agendas and wills and they don't usually meet so it's a chaos. Other games have mechanics like safezones/non pvp and non permadeath to prevent people from griefing.

In the real world.. if children play together in a sandbox they gotta learn to get along. Some kids might want to play war, some want to build sandcastles together.
So it's better if the ones who want to play war play with those who want war and not drag in the sandcastle builders while they are at it. They should be left alone.

Sandbox games have no rules, you as a player create the rules and you are responsible for you actions. You can hide as much as you want behind RP but in the end it's YOU who made that RP character and YOU who dictate what it does.
If you enforce your gameplay on others then that's the wrong way to go. It will only lead to suffering for both sides.

Play war with those who want war.. those who want to build in peace and farm. Let them. Agendas should not be enforced on everyone and generalised.
A sandbox community should have individual agreements in how they wish to play so everyone can stay happy.

If someone wants to beat on someone that is a newbie and weak..and the noob doesn't even want to join some warplay agenda, and this person gets kicks from this, then that person is probably mentally ill or just ignorant in what he is doing.

To some people their little base might be the whole world, and it's the only place they felt like they ever achieved something, it can't be measured or compared.
People actually get very saddened and emotional if negative things happen to them ingame, even if they shouldn't. Some people don't have the mindset to handle this, nor wish to participate in your wargames.
And if YOU have this mindset and you know the other person doesn't have it and you still keep beating them down? what does that make you?

[Feone]

And if YOU have this mindset and you know the other person doesn't have it and you still keep beating them down? what does that make you?

An average player, I guess.

In your system the ones playing war will always end up on top with everyone else being bullied out. Just because they can.

[Dallane]

Play war with those who want war.. those who want to build in peace and farm. Let them. Agendas should not be enforced on everyone and generalised.
A sandbox community should have individual agreements in how they wish to play so everyone can stay happy.

That only works if people work toward that goal. If thats the case then everything in salem has worked out fine. Since only a few people are interested in defying the tribal rule. Want to change that? Enable the people who want to play war and support them? Don't ***** if you don't like how the community is now. Everyone is partly to blame for it.

[Syndarn]

In your system the ones playing war will always end up on top with everyone else being bullied out. Just because they can.

Well it doesn't matter to me how strong the war players will end up as long as the sandcastle people get left alone. Everyone wins.

..you as a player create the rules and you are responsible for you actions...

What people should realise is that just because they can, doesn't mean they should. With great power becomes great responsibility. We are all responsible for our actions.
Not to the ingame character, but to eachoter as individual persons behind the monitors.

[Procne]

Play war with those who want war.. those who want to build in peace and farm. Let them. Agendas should not be enforced on everyone and generalised.
A sandbox community should have individual agreements in how they wish to play so everyone can stay happy.

That only works if people work toward that goal. If thats the case then everything in salem has worked out fine. Since only a few people are interested in defying the tribal rule. Want to change that? Enable the people who want to play war and support them? Don't ***** if you don't like how the community is now. Everyone is partly to blame for it.

And people with highest postcount take the majority of the blame!

[Dallane]

Play war with those who want war.. those who want to build in peace and farm. Let them. Agendas should not be enforced on everyone and generalised.
A sandbox community should have individual agreements in how they wish to play so everyone can stay happy.

That only works if people work toward that goal. If thats the case then everything in salem has worked out fine. Since only a few people are interested in defying the tribal rule. Want to change that? Enable the people who want to play war and support them? Don't ***** if you don't like how the community is now. Everyone is partly to blame for it.

And people with highest postcount take the majority of the blame!

I won the forum war sir!

[Syndarn]

That only works if people work toward that goal. If thats the case then everything in salem has worked out fine. Since only a few people are interested in defying the tribal rule. Want to change that? Enable the people who want to play war and support them? Don't ***** if you don't like how the community is now. Everyone is partly to blame for it.

Bah.. blaming someone and getting mixed up in what has happened in the past is meaningless, it will get us nowhere. What is inportant is what will people do now? everything can change. But that means that people who are considered griefers ingame understand what they are doing, and take a more considerate approach in the future, and not drag it out on people who don't deserve it, nor want to be part of it.