Gameplay pace sucks

[L33LEE]

Could we please stick to the discussion of interface pacing? Character & base development pacing has been discussed to death in other threads.

I think they are all intertwined. I think that Character and base development should reduce interface pacing. You just want faster interface.

They are all intertwined, Mods making game play comments on a game they do not play, nor got that developed when they did.

Classic. *wait for ban*

BANNED 24 HOURS

[Potjeh]

Seriously, guys, can we please have one discussion where we don't rehash the same old stuff that pops up in virtually every other thread?

Anyhow, as far as lime and coal are concerned, I don't think the solution is to just speed up the process. Lime is fine as it is, thanks to stamp mills. Five stamp mills work just fast enough to finish crushing while you dig up and bring back five lime boulders (4 on sled, one in hands). For chopping blocks, the speed would be fine if you could chop up more blocks at once (preferably a whole log), so you can do something else while you wait. A larger inventory would do the trick here, perhaps with some kind of specialized backpacks that holds a bunch of blocks but can't hold anything else. Alternatively, an automated block chopper would do the trick, something where you just toss in a whole log and come to collect blocks later.

[Kandarim]

I spend most of my time planting fields and processing the output in salem, so i'll give my opinion on that, compared to haven.

Preparing the fields

In haven, preparing a huge amount of fields is as simple as getting your metal sled out, clicking a long distance away and waiting for your character to reach it. In the meantime you can eat stuff, drink water to counter the stamina loss, eat more stuff. Chat with your townies or just lay off the screen for a minute.

In salem, preparing fields (assuming they are pre-built) consist of constantly running between the compost bins and the fields to put compost on them all the while not being able to talk because there is compost on your cursor. Not to mention the amounts of humus and running required to prepare newly-placed fields.

Planting

In haven, planting is instantaneous (when all fields are prepared) and is limited by the speed you can run at. Fields are much smaller, much less running is required and while you generally have more fields to plant in haven than in salem, the feeling of speed is there that makes you go through with it. It's only two-three minutes of quick planting, after all.
Orient your fields in long lines and you don't even have to move the mouse at all, just get the timing right.

In salem, planting a field takes roughly five seconds on a prepared field. During this time, you cannot talk because you must keep the seeds on your cursor and clicking in the chat area will drop the item. Given the large sizes of the fields you will spend a longer time walking between them. The combination of the larger size (no long lines of fields) and the longer planting time means that you can't "get into a rhythm" for planting, generally creating a huge boring experience.

Postplanting

In haven: what?

In salem: now the actual work begins. If you don't want to waste seeds/time/space you'll be dumping TONS of lime on the field. Even if you neglect the liming and are raising cereal for hay, you'll be throwing one woodchip on each field every second harvest. Woodchips means either treechopping or board drying. I can generally mooch off mouldy boards from my town, so it's not a major concern for me.

(i'm not gonna count the tiering of fields against salem here, because I think they add a much-needed complexity to haven's farming system)

Harvesting and processing

Only a small note here: I think salem's processing system is fine. The most processing-intensive system is probably cotton harvesting and I find it tedious (slow, more like) but the fact that you can clean an entire inventory of cotton in one go is good, as well as the fact that you can chat in the meantime.

Haven output vs Salem output

At no extra fertilizers, salem fields output roughly the similar amount of resources as haven fields. The difference is, in salem the end-game food is 100% farmed. In haven, the end-game food (as far as I can tell, i've never played it seriously) is generally a combination of livestock meat and hunted meat, at best complemented with some baked goods.

Haven resource usage vs Salem resource usage (at the risk of going off-topic)

In haven, food is used to raise your attributes. Period. Anytime you can eat a piece of food you're happy. You can eat whenever you feel like it (given that you're not stuffed) without worrying about the food going to waste.

In salem, food is used for EVERYTHING. Simply eating food wastes it (because it cannot be used for gluttony anymore). If you want to study anything on a decent level, you'll need cupboards full of food (possibly the largest drain I experience). Loads of it. And I do mean loads: it can take me more than 70-80 black bile to study for a single proficiency increase. All this means that you are stocking TONS of food, both for regular regeneration and gluttony. Gluttony will require you to eat massive amounts of food at once but will also localize this in time meaning that you can't glutton in small segments.

woops, this turned out a good deal longer than I'd originally planned

[Potjeh]

In haven, the end-game food (as far as I can tell, i've never played it seriously) is generally a combination of livestock meat and hunted meat, at best complemented with some baked goods.

Actually, the base of high end diet is cheese, but every food type is useful thanks to FEP bar reduction. But anyhow, I think you're spot on with your assessment of farming in Salem, and especially the problem of having your cursor tied up with seeds etc. This is especially apparent in the other side of farming, gardening pots, where the cursor tying is at a ridiculous level. I wish we could just right click pot and choose "prepare" from a flower menu as long as we have 3 humus and 1l of water in inventory.

[Kandarim]

In haven, the end-game food (as far as I can tell, i've never played it seriously) is generally a combination of livestock meat and hunted meat, at best complemented with some baked goods.

Actually, the base of high end diet is cheese, but every food type is useful thanks to FEP bar reduction.

Ah yes, I forgot about cheese. Still, it's a livestock produce rather than farming product. This is another point for haven: every single piece of food has a use thanks to FEP bar reduction (but this deviates too much from the topic we are discussing here).

This is especially apparent in the other side of farming, gardening pots, where the cursor tying is at a ridiculous level. I wish we could just right click pot and choose "prepare" from a flower menu as long as we have 3 humus and 1l of water in inventory.

It's the very reason I generally don't bother with gardening pots except for making the occasional batch of garlic for windy poohs.

[Tammer]

I wish we could just right click pot and choose "prepare" from a flower menu as long as we have 3 humus and 1l of water in inventory.

A great idea!

[Darwoth]

i am continuously annoyed by people that even bring up biles as an issue at this juncture, when i played on plymouth it took around 15 - 20 cabbage cakes/pumpkin pies/aztecs per point (everyone had 0% **** back then) to boost your stats into the 150 range and myself along with several others still managed to do it. with the same concentrated effort 400+ is now attainable. i was considering making another titan using only 0 - 10% or so crops and documenting what it took, but realized it does not matter because people will still ***** anyway. 4 months ago it was "waah waah its impossible to get my stats up now!" now much later when the baseline moron component figured out what a tier 3 field is it is "waah waaah that takes to long" tommorrow it will just be something else.

the issue is not gluttony, it is that people think they should log on for 30 minutes a day 3 times a week and have a titan in a month. other things are certainly more tedious than they could/should be yes. which is ironic given that most of potjehs suggestions in thie forum are how to make them MORE so not less

[Potjeh]

Would you please read threads before replying to them?

[Darwoth]

i did read it fellatio cannon, the majority of my reply was for others in the thread although i did touch on your earth shattering "points" that nobody has ever heard before.

we know already potjeh you have told everyone many many times.



the game is to "hard" because it requires people to play it to advance unlike haven where you can run bots for all your chores and then sit around for months eating curios while you are logged off.

anything that is used by advanced players should be nerfed because only "poopsockers" do that.

existing items or structures of value folks spent effort acquiring/building (high level mines, tree walls, purity items, high end gear sets etc) should all be nerfed to uselessness because only "poopsockers" have that stuff.

and casuals playing for 3 hours a week should be dominating their servers, but only after they spend the potjeh approved number of hours doing stupid **** like "poopsocking" for mushrooms in the woods to make it more "interesting"

[Potjeh]

If you had read it you would know that the topic has nothing to do with gluttony.