Water based defenses.

[Dallane]

instead of this we should add bridges, 10/10 better idea

Not a bad idea by itself, why not make a thread for it?

I hope you're being sarcastic, I'm sure there are already threads about this and the devs have explained why its not possible with this engine.

There is

[nonsonogiucas]

There is

Found it.

And the reason is that the terrain is (if I understand correctly) just a 2D biome map with Z level. The Z-height of a character is probably never even factored in when deciding where and if he can walk in a particular direction but only what kind of map-tile he would step on and if there are obstacles. If this is true than the whole movement, collision and line-of-sight code would have to be revised to allow for bridges.

[Feone]

except that a lot of island bases become nigh impenatrable?

Probably the point in the first place lol.

This. No thanks

So I see none of you are going to say anything intelligent to back up these random claims?

Why is it that an island would become impenetrable because of breakable defenses that also cover water?

[Champie]

oops, wrong thread!?!/

[Mereni]

Maybe people are thinking about waste claims and the fact that being able to build your defenses in the water would make the normally oddly shaped and inconvenient island bases much more feasible. Such water defenses would be more difficult to destroy because it would have to be done from inside a canoe; a canoe has a hit box large enough that that would make maneuvering to attack a wall or water brazier very difficult.

They would also allow people to block off lakes and rivers all over the map to not allow others to travel on them, which is something that I think is a pretty bad idea.

I think the greatest argument against though, is that Salem is based on history. It's a rather distorted history, and we have things like braziers and torchposts which normally produced only heat and light taking the place of things like cannon, but even so it would be nice if we don't go too far into the realm of fantasy. There was never really a means to mount a permanent, stationary, floating defense in the water back then and I think we don't even really have that sort of thing now. I've never seen a wall built over a lake, maybe a fortress straddling a small stream with barred archways to let the water in one side and out the other, but that's about it.

[Feone]

Maybe people are thinking about waste claims and the fact that being able to build your defenses in the water would make the normally oddly shaped and inconvenient island bases much more feasible. Such water defenses would be more difficult to destroy because it would have to be done from inside a canoe; a canoe has a hit box large enough that that would make maneuvering to attack a wall or water brazier very difficult.

They would also allow people to block off lakes and rivers all over the map to not allow others to travel on them, which is something that I think is a pretty bad idea.

I think the greatest argument against though, is that Salem is based on history. It's a rather distorted history, and we have things like braziers and torchposts which normally produced only heat and light taking the place of things like cannon, but even so it would be nice if we don't go too far into the realm of fantasy. There was never really a means to mount a permanent, stationary, floating defense in the water back then and I think we don't even really have that sort of thing now. I've never seen a wall built over a lake, maybe a fortress straddling a small stream with barred archways to let the water in one side and out the other, but that's about it.

I agree with you on the historical aspect, however you could also say it would've been suicide to sail into a harbor and start stealing stuff. In reality security comes from guarding, not from walls.
Since Salem is a game we can't guard our stuff 24/7 so some sort of defense to keep people away from fish traps and boats for example would be much appreciated. It doesn't have to be an epic fortification, but at the very least it should require waste to get through, not just sailing in without ever committing any sort of crime that would trigger a brazier.

I would say adding a heavy price tag on water based defenses would deter even the most dedicated trolls from blocking off any significant number of pathways. It's not like the water in Salem (At least inland) is that connected anyway. Aside from that, the world is huge. If every player started magically making stick fences across rivers 24 hours a day for a week straight there's a good chance it'd take hours for any new player to run into even one after hitting a random spawn.

As for the hitbox, that is a good point. However, I reckon it'd be possible to adjust the hitbox of the wall to allow for easy attacking from a canoe, but of course only the devs can answer that one for sure.

[Dallane]

So I see none of you are going to say anything intelligent to back up these random claims?

Why is it that an island would become impenetrable because of breakable defenses that also cover water?

Not sure whats random.....you need to calm down on the autism.

You need to play the game and learn how it works instead of making random ideas that aren't going to work for the game.

[nonsonogiucas]

Am I wrong or the real issue is not building walls over water but the fact that islands have oddly shaped coasts that make it difficult to build walls all around them?

Because I have the impression that you should actually be proposing to add the ability to reshape the coasts through terraforming... becaus if you could reshape the coasts then you could buikd walls that fall directly in deep water without building on the water itself... which would actually make sense... historically at least.

[Feone]

Am I wrong or the real issue is not building walls over water but the fact that islands have oddly shaped coasts that make it difficult to build walls all around them?

Because I have the impression that you should actually be proposing to add the ability to reshape the coasts through terraforming... becaus if you could reshape the coasts then you could buikd walls that fall directly in deep water without building on the water itself... which would actually make sense... historically at least.

No, the point of the original idea was not to fortify islands. Just disregard the troll brigade.
I would like to be able to fortify pieces of river or shore to function as a harbor for example. Or a riverway entrance into a town.
Fortifications around harbors and rivers (ones that flow trough towns) are common all troughout history.

[nonsonogiucas]

...to function as a harbor...

That would be historically legitimate but practically not feasible because the system would be exploited in so many broken and annoying ways to make it extremely undesirable. First of all I don't believe feasible to introduce even rudimentary fluid simulation mechanics in a MMO, and without fluid simulation you would end up being able to create dams without the resulting flood.

It would be ok to drop dirt and stones in water until you have yourself a harbor, but try the same thing across a running river... as you reduce the river's section by drawing the banks together the pressure of the water over your structures increases, look at pictures of dams with open gates and try to guess what would happen to a rock placed in front the gate...