constructive discussion about haven and salem

[dageir]

I have recently started playing HnH (again) and I noticed that it was a much more rewarding early game play. It is hard to put the finger on what it actually is that set the games apart, but I will try.

1. I can forage and hunt with less effort in HnH.
2. My character is a lot more sturdy and can tolerate more hits from low level critters without dying.
3. My character can interact with the world and actually do something without running out of phlegm by doing almost nothing.
4. Once you are in a village you can make a come back with much more ease after death than in Salem.
5. Because of point 4 you are not so afraid to lose a combat char.
6. You can become pretty safe with a brick wall.

Edit:
Oh, and the main problem: The tinder drill.. Why cant we just light the ovens, the stove and the campfires without going through the process of gathering tinder and whatever?
Players want meaningfull gameplay that gets them moving ahead, not a chore that is just a hassle and is a real delay for a new player. The tinder drill is not really the main problem, but its symptomatic of how the game plays out. I am not saying you should change the game play, but make it less chory somehow.

[sabinati]

split this because it warrants discussion

of course there is the difference between purity and quality as well. while i like the multiple dimension aspect of purity, it feels more grindy than quality to me. gains feel less significant with purity.

[Dallane]

Every item in hnh can have value to someone.
Everything you do is rewarding and goes toward something.
Characters are more focused and better developed.
The community is 100x better.

I could go on for days but i just got off work and need sleep.

[Procne]

1. I can forage and hunt with less effort in HnH.

I can agree on forage, but that's because there is less stuff to forage in HnH, so it takes longer to fill your inventory. Also, you can teleport to your place for free.

2. My character is a lot more sturdy and can tolerate more hits from low level critters without dying.

Is it? If boar attacks you then it's 1 hit KO or even death. Killing a fox requires some stats and skills. Unless you talk about sling hunting from a boat.

3. My character can interact with the world and actually do something without running out of phlegm by doing almost nothing.

Depends what you are doing. Plowing can quickly burn through your stamina. And stamina doesn't scale with stats. I prefer Salem here, since with higher phlegm you can at least eat less often

4. Once you are in a village you can make a come back with much more ease after death than in Salem.

This I disagree with. Raising new character takes more time in HnH than in Salem. First - curiosities take more time to study, and second - changing beliefs takes some time. I don't think there is much difference in increasing stats. In Salem, if you have some food and inspirationals stored, you can raise new char really easy.

TBH I'm not sure what's constructive in this topic so far. Comparison between 2 games isn't constructive on its own. Conslusions from such comparison can be constructive but there are none yet.

[Nimmeth]

Procne, Topic name was made by sabinati when it was moved down here from another thread
i would had gone with "things i like in hnh i would like to see in salem" or something along that. i think that is what dag is trying to say
besides he is a good guy, i'm sure he did not intend to cause any anger

[dageir]

Yeah, it wasnt my idea to make a thread. Im not out to bash Salem, but I found there was a stunning difference in two so similar games in early play.
I think Dallane is on to something about in HnH you feel you are working towards a goal every second while in Salem you dont.

[Procne]

Aye, no worries, I'm not here to argue / bash / accuse of bashing. Just pointed out that it could use some conclusions. I think I will need to use more smilies as a sign of peace

[dageir]

The best discussions dont have conclusions.

[sabinati]

Conslusions from such comparison can be constructive but there are none yet.

of course there are no conclusions yet, the thread is barely a few hours old.

Every item in hnh can have value to someone.

doesn't just about everything in salem as well?

1. I can forage and hunt with less effort in HnH.

I can agree on forage, but that's because there is less stuff to forage in HnH, so it takes longer to fill your inventory. Also, you can teleport to your place for free.

also you can carry more in haven. merch robe and traveller's sacks ftw. salem has some real nice handling of things like seeds and flour, but that is not useful for foragers.

[Dallane]

Every item in hnh can have value to someone.

doesn't just about everything in salem as well?

Not really. Look at the trade threads. Its all the same thing over and over. Silver becomes next to useless once you can hunt argopelters