town end game and pvp - the Pride system

[Sevenless]

seeing as we're going off the sins as a general game mechanic, i think the sin of Pride makes a perfect addition to end-game. specifically, this system would help address the issue of "valuable" items to be stolen and fought over.

the Pride system would revolve around the creation, defense and theft of Banners, Tapestries and Engravings. these Items would be incredibly expensive to create, and would generate a small buff to all areas covered by the town claim or to the members of the town upon which They are displayed. as befitting an Item of true Nobility, Pride Items would be carryable objects only and would never fit inside a small and cramped backpack or rucksack.

to prevent it getting out of hand, the boost would have to be small. the first Pride Item for a specific buff would give a 5% boost, while the second would give 2.5%. the cap would be 10% reached at infinite Pride Objects, but the majority of the boost can be obtained with as little as three. Pride Objects themselves wouldn't be the only cost, Display Stands would need to be constructed for each Pride Item for them to give a bonus.

Banners would give combat related buffs, Tapestries/Engravings would generate industry/production related benefits.


~Display Stands~

Banner Stand: outdoor constructed building. may not be built within 5 tiles of another non-liftable structure. holds one Banner.

100 oiled boards
200 planed boards
400 bricks

20 iron poles (5 bars of iron each)
20 iron fittings (1 bar of iron each)

Tapestry Mount: indoor constructable item. must be built on a wall. holds one Tapestry.

100 oiled boards
200 planed boards
200 stone
400 bricks

20 iron hooks (1 bar of iron each)


~Pride Objects~ - during the construction of Pride objects, relevant skills will determine the chance of successfully building a material into the object. materials will not be lost, but high appropriate skills will drastically shorten the construction time.


Banners

Banner of the Exiled King (thread and needle to create)
+5% damage done in combat by town members for the first displayed Banner

100 sea island cloth
200 indian cloth
400 embroidery thread (stackable up to 10, sort 1 cotton ball -> cotton wisps, spin at loom -> 1 embroidery thread if successful, success based on thread and needle skill)

Banner of the Valiant Knight (thread and needle to create)
-5% damage received by town members for the first displayed Banner

100 sea island cloth
200 egyptian cloth
400 embroidery thread

Banner of the Wounded Message Runner (thread and needle to create)
+base movespeed. the increase in speed will not exceed wander movement, and it will not increase the speed during forage, wander or run movement types. nor will it increase movement speed while using combat stances.

300 egyptian cloth
300 indian cloth
400 embroidery thread

Tapestries and Engravings

Ode to the Bountiful Harvest (Tapestry: arts and crafts to create)
fields within the town claim receive +5% of total plenty (after s/c bonus is summed in) when planted for the first tapestry.

100 sea island cloth
400 strips of indian cloth (cut with iron scissors (2 bars of iron to produce), success based on arts and crafts skill level, produces 2 strips if successful)
400 embroidery thread

Tale of the Spring Planting (Tapestry: arts and crafts to create)
fields within the town claim receive +5% speed when planted for the first tapestry.

100 sea island cloth
400 strips of egyptian cloth
400 embroidery thread

Story of the Industrious Worker (Engraving: hammer and nail to create)
maturation items (coal piles, plank piles) require 5% less server ticks to mature when built on town claim for the first engraving.

100 a face in the dross
200 decorative wood carvings
100 oiled boards



summary: a horrendously expensive game of capture the flag with useful but non-game breaking buffs for the hoarders of flags. to have multiple of these objects would be a very grueling construction process that would have to be planned for from the start and would in general keep the hardcore "endgamers" busy building and fighting over them for a good long while. all actual values are best guesses from me what wouldn't be out of hand, but obviously none of the values are set in stone if this were to be adapted for salem.

[_Gunnar]

I really like this. Could they require a steady stream of stuff to maintain as well, so that there is another sink for items/silver in game?

[Darwoth]

sounds good to me

[Kaol]

I'm not sure really. Id rather see what is actually planned for the end game first.

[Sevenless]

I'm not sure really. Id rather see what is actually planned for the end game first.

I have no clue what they want for endgame, and I'm sure they have plans. I just had a nicely formed idea and wanted to share it.

I'm really proud of my capitalization "roleplay". It took me forever.

[MagicManICT]

You could triple the costs on those and it wouldn't be "out of hand" in my opinion. Some of that is way too cheap.

[Sevenless]

You could triple the costs on those and it wouldn't be "out of hand" in my opinion. Some of that is way too cheap.

Yeah, I was really throwing a dart blind with regards to cost. I have never really played "endgame" hardcore, so I've no clue how easy it is to pump out large volumes of cotton cloth and etc.

One thing I really wanted to emphasize though: Skill specialization. The cost wouldn't just be the materials, success in crafting the various parts should also require hefty skill investment. I miss the haven days of specialized workers where you had hunters and tailors. People would grind various skills and be good at a specific job.

I personally think specialization drives trade. If I can make a pie as easily as you can, why would we trade pies for bricks? There's not much of a point unless they really really hate making pies and I hate making bricks I guess.

Edit: Ok let me stop being stupid here. Specialization *does* drive trade according to basic economic principles. I did do a good couple economics courses in university.

[_Gunnar]

You could triple the costs on those and it wouldn't be "out of hand" in my opinion. Some of that is way too cheap.

Yeah, I was really throwing a dart blind with regards to cost. I have never really played "endgame" hardcore, so I've no clue how easy it is to pump out large volumes of cotton cloth and etc.

One thing I really wanted to emphasize though: Skill specialization. The cost wouldn't just be the materials, success in crafting the various parts should also require hefty skill investment. I miss the haven days of specialized workers where you had hunters and tailors. People would grind various skills and be good at a specific job.

I personally think specialization drives trade. If I can make a pie as easily as you can, why would we trade pies for bricks? There's not much of a point unless they really really hate making pies and I hate making bricks I guess.

Yeah, I totally agree with this, and I'm guessing that eventually there will be more specialization a la H&N for planing boards - it would seem easy to implement a similar thing for cotton cloth, for example.

[Sevenless]

I was kind of getting at that with the concept of "cotton strips". Add an additional layer of processing that has skill based success rate.

I mean the problem is loftar mentioned they're trying to shy away from "massive" skill influence on the game. And that's killing trade hardcore from what I can see. If I can't make better pies, and you can't make better coats, why trade? Purity helps a little but if you have purity you're better at everything, not just one specific thing really.

[_Gunnar]

I was kind of getting at that with the concept of "cotton strips". Add an additional layer of processing that has skill based success rate.

I mean the problem is loftar mentioned they're trying to shy away from "massive" skill influence on the game. And that's killing trade hardcore from what I can see. If I can't make better pies, and you can't make better coats, why trade? Purity helps a little but if you have purity you're better at everything, not just one specific thing really.

well, i think there would be more trade if there was more to do endgame than just stuff food into your face all day

at the moment its never a good idea to sell pure food, which is the only really valuable thing in the game right now apart from iron bars. Actually specialization never helped trade in haven either, since what really happened was each (decent) village produced everything themselves, but I agree that in principle it could help, and it would either help trade or teamwork.

as to "massive" skill influence: well, as a hermit with no alts i appreciate being able to craft quite a lot of stuff with low skill levels, and i think you're right that adding an extra layer of processing that is influenced by skills is a good way to go. however if they don't want skill influence to matter overly, they really ought to revamp the combat system :/ - in the good old days everyone could 1hit each other once they broke their defence, and there were various sneaky ways to do that even with lower UA/MC, even without the 0def while moving thingy. Now blood means that a character with 200 biles is more than twice as good as one character with 100 biles