Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Salem

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Salem

Postby pistolshrimp » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:49 pm

Dear Mr. Carver,

Part of me understands why you left. Running a small indie game can be thankless, the money less than what you can make from other, easier, means, and the nature of programming is that people are willing to tear you apart for your mistakes, but your greatest victories often go completely unnoticed. Also, given the time it takes to create a new mechanic, if it doesn't work out, it feels really ****** to have to go back and remove it so you end up adding adding more junk on top of it to try to make it work. Salem, in my opinion, has a couple of those. And it doesn't help that somehow everyone in this community is simultaneously the meanest and nicest person I've ever interacted with online. Publicly they troll, insult, and generally try to make everyone around them feel like idiots. Then privately they will reach out and guide people, give tips, items, and really go out of there way to help you play this game. Salem seems to brings out both the worst and the best in us.

And I can't change any of that, lol. But what I can do, is I can try to make it worse. Sure maybe if you are suffering from a lack of inspiration or direction these ideas could help, but I doubt that was ever the problem. I assume they will be simply annoying. A reminder that this game exists and that with a lot more time and effort than is reasonable it can be born again anew. That we are all waiting for you and cheering you on. You are Prometheus and Salem is the fire from the gods you have stole and we are the vultures here to eat your liver. Come back to us.

So, John Carver, if you wish to stop these probably dumb and annoying suggestions, all you need to do is acknowledge Salem, and tell us about its future., here or on Discord.
Last edited by pistolshrimp on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mason's Room VI - Mason's Tailor

Postby pistolshrimp » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:52 pm

Day 1: Mason's Room VI - Mason's Tailor

What It Does: In this room a NPC will add slots to your clothing, up to that Clothing Type's Max. For instance a Crow Feather Cape could get 2 added slots (a max of 4) while a Sheepskin Cape could only get 1. This Mason's Tailor would cost exponentially more silver for each additional slot that was added to each item of clothing. The Mason's Tailor would have no cool down and could be used as many times as desired.

Why it's Good for Salem: The way slots are now is fairly limiting to in-game diversity. The best outfits all tend to include roughly the same clothing items as they have the highest number of base slots. The biggest benefit of this would be that outfits, at least the look, would be largely up to the players. If you want to have an Endgame Santa Cap you could if you had enough silver to fork over of course. Maybe Salemites are above all this, but I know a big part of a lot of games is customizing how your character looks. Additionally it adds value to Developer and Store Bought items, as they typically look better than many regular craftable items, but sometimes are not useful late game due to the number of slots. It also acts as a late game silver sink.

Clarifications: This would not fix broken slots, or replace the need for spider-egg sacks, mary's ribbon or decorative lace to get past the max base slots.

Dev Effort Required: LOW. Mostly just a new room and NPC to create, no new items or balance is needed.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby gorniksam » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:05 pm

+1
steeloxidex wrote:Lel, this game is ****, you probably all only play it because you have garbage computers that cant play real games.

I am going to go play some real games. LOL scrubs.

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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Taipion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:42 pm

That'd mean alts with cheap newbie clothing could have a perfect combat set, interesting. :D

As for implementation, one could use a shortcut here and let the npc add (read: not give the player) special artifices to the clothing that simply work like lace/eggsac/ribbon, and can't be recovered from cutting cloths with a scissor,
whereas there are like 5 different artifices of that kind, one for each slot that an item may be lacking in comparison to the highest slot # in that category,
or simply replace the base item with a new base item that is exactly the same except for slot #, idk server code so no idea what'd be less work.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby pistolshrimp » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:34 pm

Taipion wrote:That'd mean alts with cheap newbie clothing could have a perfect combat set, interesting. :D

As for implementation, one could use a shortcut here and let the npc add (read: not give the player) special artifices to the clothing that simply work like lace/eggsac/ribbon, and can't be recovered from cutting cloths with a scissor,
whereas there are like 5 different artifices of that kind, one for each slot that an item may be lacking in comparison to the highest slot # in that category,
or simply replace the base item with a new base item that is exactly the same except for slot #, idk server code so no idea what'd be less work.


Yeah the idea of someone running around with a maxed out Jute Set, tricking unsuspecting people into combat gives me a chuckle. Also that is a really interesting idea for implementation. I like it a lot.
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Temperature/ Darkness Rework Part 1 - Temperature Changes

Postby pistolshrimp » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:23 pm

Day 2: Temperature/ Darkness Rework Part 1 - Temperature Changes

What It Does: Seasons and Darkness are removed-ish. Temperature at any location is now affected by 2 things, distance from Providence (replacing Darkness) and ground temperature. Ground Temperature would be sort of a layer underneath the world map would be random and vary in size and intensity and would modify the temperature of the tile above it. Ground Temperature would range from a high negative modifier to a high positive modifier, essentially making cold and hot spots possible, although generally most modifiers would be close to 0, essentially neutral. Temperature from Providence would be the biggest factor in the equation, but that would me in some intense hot spots you might have temperatures near that of providence in what is now the darkness and visa versa.

For the sake of clarity I am going to use Seasons to refer to zones of average temperature range. Around providence is spring, and the deepest darkness is winter, with summer then fall in the middle. You can also think of these zones as zones of ease for players - new players will find the spring zone easiest to survive in as hypothermia will be rare, but vets will find winter more rewarding as it will be safer from discovery as well as temperature bases benefits I will get into later.

Overview So We Are On the Same Page:

SPRING: No Thermal needed.
Hot Zone: Heat Exhaustion
Cold Spot: nothing

SUMMER: Minimal Thermal needed.
Hot Zone: Heat Exhaustion
Cold Spot: Particularly intense Cold Spots may need Moderate Thermal to avoid Hypothermia.

Fall: Moderate Thermal needed to avoid Hypothermia.
Hot Zone: Particularly intense Hot Spots may give Heat Exhaustion.
Cold Spot: Most Cold Spots will need High Thermal to avoid Hypothermia.

Winter: High Thermal needed to avoid Hypothermia..
Hot Zone: nothing.
Cold Spot: Particularly intense Cold Spots may be un-inhabitable.

Heat Exhaustion: I know this one was planned at one point, so some of this may already be coded. How I envision it, is that it would be not as dramatic as Hypothermia, but enough of a pain that as a player gets more comfortable with the game they will want to move out of the easier Spring and Summer zones to avoid it. Heat Exhaustion would reduce speed and increase Phelgm drain for all activities done while under its affects.

Why it's Good for Salem: Hypothermia is a barrier to new players, and is a chore to older players that offers no meaningful reward. This starts to correct both of those issues, new players learn the game in the relatively easier spring zone, but are are encouraged by game play mechanics to venture onward to more rewarding zones, where as dealing with intense Hypothermia becomes a late game mechanic with high Thermal clothing being pushed onto higher end materials and skills. This means bases can be protected by Hypothermia to an extent, as well as other benefits I will get into later. Also it makes Thermoscope an actually useful devise.

Clarifications: Darkness drain is removed. Blood Moons would not be removed. Temperature would scale linearly and zones are essentially conceptual flowing naturally into the next without any major distinction. I will go into more details about the nuances of this mechanic and how this affects the darkness in the next few posts (unless JC posts before then!).

Dev Effort Required: MODERATE. At this point in this suggestion is mostly a numbers game with some shifting around or removal of mechanics. I envision ground temperature not really as a layer pers-se but more simply a randomly generated cloud pattern with a single number ranging from say -10 to 10 attached to each individual tile.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Taipion » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:37 am

I would not just dump darkness/drain because that is not really related to thermal.

Other than that, not bad, but there are more things one could add,
easier to think of negative effects like a rain storm or black ice or whatever.
But there should be more "bonus" things in harsher regions to encourage people to go there.

In general, thermal and seasons has a huge potential, and countless things that could be added in that regard.
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Temperature/ Darkness Rework Part 2

Postby pistolshrimp » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 pm

Day 3: Temperature/ Darkness Rework Part 2 - Temperature Benefits/ Spoilage/Fruit

What It Does: The primary goal of this temperature chance is to make Spring and Summer Zones relatively easier but less rewarding than the relatively harder but more rewarding Fall and Winter zones. This post will start to flesh out some of the mechanics of the Temperature rework that start to get it closer to that goal. It will also address Fruit which already needs balancing.

Spoilage: Spoilage already exists in the game for Fruit and Tulips, it would be modified to affect most unprocessed foods as well. Spoilage is now affected by Temperature. The Hotter the Temperature the faster food Spoils. For instance picked Fruit would spoil in a day on a Hot Spot in the Spring Zone, where as would last for weeks on a Cold Spot in the Winter. This would give a major advantage to living in the Winter where mid to late game players want to store food for gluttony sessions and while it would be a pain in the Spring Zone its affects would 'seem' less harsh to newer players who are not focused on major gluttony sessions.

Fruit: Currently Fruit require an Everbloom to Fruit. This requirement would be removed. Instead Fruit would constantly cycle through Fallow, Blossoming, Fruiting stages. Fruit trees however would have temperature thresholds (irl this is often called Hardiness). This would work in such a way that Fruit Trees in the Hardiness/Temperature range give the normal amount of Fruit, close to their range give less Fruit, and not close to their range would Blossom but never Fruit. Fruit Temperature ranges would be biased cold, so Winter Zones could generally support more Fruit than others, but no zone could have them all. This would nerf Fruit without killing its usefulness or introducing a tree disease mechanic which the devs kicked around for a bit. It would theoretically also open promote economy as players can still trade for the Fruit they can't grow themselves.

Domesticated Animals: Domesticated Animal sickness would be influenced by temperature, ie being left outside in the Spring zone would be less likely to cause sickness than being left outside in say the Winter. This gives newer players more leeway when learning the mechanics with Domesticated Animals, however on the flip side, Domesticated Animal productivity would scale with temperature. The colder the temperature the more productive the animal would be. This already exists in Sheep producing more wool in a Coldsnap, but would other animals would gain these benefits as well, more milk, more wool, more gelatinous lard. Additionally they would eat less. Theoretically the reward here is less animals are needed and therefore less grind.

Minor Things:

I also envision something like temperature affecting civilian chance bonuses, like the amount of extra coal from coal clamps, boards from logs, plants from pots, etc. The idea is the same as with Domesticated Animals, harder living but less grind.

New Structure: Root Cellar, a structure which would work like the opposite of an igloo, the inside would be cold, and therefore Foods could be stored inside to delay Spoilage. This would be to make Spoilage not prohibitive to late game players who would rather choose to live in the Spring and Summer zones.

Blossoming Trees can be picked for X Blossoms, ie Apple Blossoms, Pear Blossoms, etc. These would could as Any Flowers, be inspirationals and can be ground on a Grindstone for Blossom Nectar. This resets the Fruit Tree back to its Fallow stage. This allows for some benefit to be had from never Fruiting Trees.

Other Current Seasonal changes would be moved to temperature with the exceptions of bears and butterfies which would only spawn over hot spots. And the Sleds pull faster mechanic which would be removed.

Why it's Good for Salem: A start to nerfing Fruit, encourages economy, exploration, and rewards living in the harder areas by decreasing grind, while not overly punishing new or early game players.

Clarifications: I'll get to Darkness tomorrow, but the idea to remove it is that we don't need 2 mechanics which effectively do the same thing. I also have a sled re-work coming up down the line to address sled pull speed.

Dev Effort Required: HIGH.
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Ronch » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:59 pm

I cannot stop liking the idea of each additional filled slot subtracting from that clothing article's thermal
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Re: Posting Game Suggestions Everyday Til JC Acknowledges Sa

Postby Taipion » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:10 am

Well, at least you thought about it, but there is probably no easy fix to balance temperature.

- General spoiling would be a huge pain for no benefit, there'd need to be something to offset the negative impact of spoiling in general.

- For any halfway developed player, there is no difficulty involved in dodging a certain thermal lvl,
pushing higher means either making partly unobtainable items and shop items a necessity,
or adding extreme inconvenience and pure stupidity by making it a must to run around with 2 lit torches all the time even while doing your simple chores in your own town (and maybe some heated rocks on top).
Even if there'd be a benefit for "living" with extreme cold, that does not sound like a good idea.

- Spreading out food sounds like a good idea at first to balance it, but having to constantly rely on others for regular trades or either waste your own fruits (spoiling) or messing up your feasting sessions... just no,
people would just start to make their own fruit plantations in different places, which would mean more overhead and slightly more grind without any benefit (or balancing).

I don't want to "spoil" your fun here really, I do like what you do, but this is more complicated than it sounds at first, and needs a good bit more thought,
and therefore should be mostly left alone or improved incrementally without a grand plan that is fully fleshed out.
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