Mass transit and trade

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Mass transit and trade

Postby Procne » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:59 pm

nonsonogiucas wrote:Seen this?
JohnCarver wrote:Mass transit through town is ugly. The solution is to give players better options. Mail could work, if it takes several days IRL for items to go from point A to point B. Unfortunately, we would also need some random spawns in the wilderness that are carrying your mail so that it could then be stolen as well or you would just use mailing things back and forth for alt-vaulting.


We are exploring the possibility of making item porting not an option any more, hence the ideas about item delivery system.


Since the other thread was about mailing I will put it here instead

Some time ago someone came up with an idea of "general store" building. I modified this idea slightly.

Carriage house

* players can build "carriage house" and wagons. Wagons are stored in carriage house
* carriage house must be given a unique name. Or number.
* wagons require horses. Horses require food.
* carriage house enables trade as well as transporting goods

Transporting goods:

* Player must have available wagons in his carriage house, a horse and enough feed for the horse.
* Goods can be transported only to another carriage house
* player has to specify destination by inputting name / id of the target carriage house
* after destination is set player can place containers with goods on the wagon, as well as supply it with food for the horse
* After all is set player can send the wagon. Wagon will travel in real time, depending on the distance
* When wagon arrives to its destination goods will be unloaded and the wagon will automatically return
* Wagon will not be visible in the world and cannot be intercepted. However:
    ** goods can be stolen from the destination carriage house after they have been unloaded
    ** anyone can change the destination of a wagon at the sender's carriage house.
    ** anyone can release the wagon at the sender's carriage house. Doing this will mean sender loses control and track of the wagon. After arriving to its destination wagon will remain there and not return.

Trading goods:

* Carriage house will have 10 slots for items for trade
* Player can, like it used to be with stalls, insert goods and specify prices for them
* For each of the 10 slots player can specify which kin-list color will have access to those offers. Only players with this color will be able to see those offers. So buyer must be kinned with seller in order to see his offers.
* Buyer will be able to see offers through his own carriage house. He will not be able to browse offers like in auction house. Instead he will have to input the name of sellers carriage house and then he will see available offers
* Accepting offer requires a wagon, horse and silver for the transaction
* After acepting wagon will be sent to pickup the goods
    ** Wagon will first deliver the silver and the load the goods and return to its owner.
    ** if, at any point in time between accepting the offer and wagon reaching destination, goods offered are removed, the wagon will automatically be returned
    ** after offer is accepted it will be removed or the number of items reduced (if not all items were bought), so that 2 people don't accept the same offer
    ** However items remain at the seller's carriage house until wagon picks them up, leaving silver in return.
    ** Buyer can cancel the trade making the wagon turn back and goods will be offered again at the seller's carriage house
* Just like with transporting wagon cannot be intercepted, however:
    ** anyone can take the items from the carriage house where they are offered. Even if there is a wagon coming to pick them. However, it costs 10% of the asked price
    ** anyone can change the destination of a wagon from buyer's carriage house, before or after the goods are picked, and then release it. In first case you are rerouting wagon with silver, in the latter - with goods.


Stalls

* Available in Boston
* silver upkeep, individual to each stall, which gradually increases over time and resets when stall is abandoned
* Can be used to sell and to buy goods
* when selling goods king takes 15% cut from you. When buying things you have to pay 15% VAT. That means seller sees price which is 85% what you have selected.
* Must be linked with a carriage house
    ** You can't simply manually deposit goods in stall - they have to be transported to it with a wagon from stall owner's carriage house
    ** Likewise, goods bought through stall have to be picked up by the wagon
    ** silver may be withdrawn or deposited manually
    ** sale and buy offers are made in similar way - stall owner puts an item in carriage house trade slot, selects the price and decides if he wants to sell or buy (so you need to have the item which you want to buy through stall). Buying requires you to also place silver
    ** Stall also shows what other offers are available in the linked carriage house
* Stalls become an option for instant trade from customer's point of view, but the owner must employ wagons and spend time moving goods to and from Boston.
* Stalls aren't meant to be used to sell large amount of goods. Just a way for other people to buy some few items they need right now. And to display in Boston your carriage houses's trade offers


Moving goods through Boston

* You can't teleport to your homestead from Boston with goods in inventory
* New item - shopping bag
    ** 8 slots container.
    ** Easy to make - a stick + dried skin
    ** equippable in the backpack slot
    ** It, and items inside it are the only things you can take with you from Boston to your home
    ** You can't manually put items in it. Instead everything you buy from the NPC, or player stall, automatically lands in the bag, but only if you are wearing it. If you take those items out and put them in inventory, while in Boston, you won't be able to put them back
    ** you cannot unequip the bag if there is anything in it
    ** When you teleport to your homestead the bag is destroyed and its contents placed in your inventory
* This means we will need querns to make flour early on
* This also means that sea fish will become regional resource, and will need to be transported inland, preferably with wagons, or bought from stalls
Last edited by Procne on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Feone » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:06 pm

Love the idea.

It'd be amazing if this thing was modular, too. Allowing for extensions to put more goods on offer or to allow for more/better wagons.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Rele » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:43 pm

Sound like a pretty cool idea! +1 for me :D
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby DarkNacht » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:16 pm

Anything moving goods through the world should be visible and interceptable.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Gromar » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:20 pm

DarkNacht wrote:Anything moving goods through the world should be visible and interceptable.


you mean like the character teleporting from the homestead to boston?
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby DarkNacht » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:23 pm

Gromar wrote:
DarkNacht wrote:Anything moving goods through the world should be visible and interceptable.


you mean like the character teleporting from the homestead to boston?

Obviously that should be removed or at least severely limited.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Feone » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:28 pm

DarkNacht wrote:Anything moving goods through the world should be visible and interceptable.


I think this is a much more elegant solution than the boston TP currently in place. Making it interceptable would involve pathfinding trough the world. Pathfinding is very tough on the server, someone spamming a lot of them at once could use them to create lagspikes.
I much prefer adding this solution and then adding some sort of intercept option later..perhaps.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Procne » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:47 pm

DarkNacht wrote:Anything moving goods through the world should be visible and interceptable.


It may seem nice at first but do you really think it would be viable gameplay mechanic? It would take a lot of programming to make it happen. And then you find out that either it's rare to stumble upon such transport anyway, making the whole effort go to waste, or it's too easy to camp the area and stop the transports. Then people start thinking about protecting their transports. I can already see how riveting it is to escort lime transport through half the map. Caravans and all that stuff may seem fun at first until you have to make 2-4h trip. In the end people would decide to carry precious cargo themselves than to risk losing it. Now that would be a huge step backwards.
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby JohnCarver » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:03 pm

Considering we are looking for solutions that are an improvement to the current insta-travel to boston mechanic in place now I see very little wrong with this suggestion. There is a lot of give that must be made to keep the nice thing that is a central place for socialization. There are also many concessions that must be made to allow new players the ability to stay relatively remote yet still have easy access to vendors etc. I feel like this is a great step in the right direction and have shamelessly copy and pasted it into our Wagon Idea box.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: Mass transit and trade

Postby Potjeh » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:05 pm

IMO transport should be done manually by players, but we should get vehicles that can transport huge quantities of materials. The idea is that only some people would do the transporting for everyone, ie we'd have specialized merchants. You could get yourself a ship and make a living just moving thousands of items, and another player might get himself a ship and make a living as a pirate. Of course, we'd need a better mapgen to make ships actually viable :(
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