Salem

you could not have the screen on focus and have tabbed out to the wiki...

JohnCarver wrote:Darknacht nailed it. I dont' mind simple macros nor do I really care to police them if the player is there, sitting at his computer, still forced to initiate the macro and diligently perform the 'next step'. Complicated macros which automate entire processes while you are able to take an extended leave from your computer are where I personally draw the line.

That being said, Diablo could 'automate' their game so you click a monster once and your character keeps swinging on the mob over and over until it dies. Some people enjoy the zen of constant clicking. Others don't. Salem automates plenty of processes. It felt acceptable that the tedious task of prospecting be one that was click-happy.

Or not, if you find 'click and watch' more fun with your silly little macros.

I find it hard to define your line. Also, how can you keep in clear? People will base on this post and start using bots all over. With the new inventory system, one bot can give you tons of thing in one run. I just can't imagine how beneficial bot have become.

bashnagdul wrote:you could not have the screen on focus and have tabbed out to the wiki...

trungdle wrote:I find it hard to define your line. Also, how can you keep in clear? People will base on this post and start using bots all over. With the new inventory system, one bot can give you tons of thing in one run. I just can't imagine how beneficial bot have become.

I gather this was the main idea: if your character is doing things that cannot be done without user interaction without any 3rd party stuff (either custom clients, bot clients, bots, hotkey scripts, ...) you better darn well be prepared to answer when a dev comes around to check up on you. Going AFK is your own (silly) responsibility but won't be counted against you if you so happen to be checked up on.

Also, don't assume that they won't check up on you in person. This game still has a relatively small player bases, a huge advantage of which is that devs really could do so. There are already detection systems in place for repetitive player actions, if I recall correctly such was posted somewhere.

bashnagdul wrote:
also known as, as long as he has no way of knowing if you are there or not, go smoke a cig

If I see your character moving/acting/playing/sending commands to the server, and do not get a quick and immediate confirmation in chat that you are there to communicate with me, I will take that as more than enough evidence that you are indeed smoking said cig and will ban you. It is hardly worth the risk to play the "but you don't know for sure" game. As I have no issue taking extreme disciplinary action WITHOUT 'knowing for sure'. Don't play with fire.

JohnCarver wrote:If I see your character moving/acting/playing/sending commands to the server, and do not get a quick and immediate confirmation in chat that you are there to communicate with me, I will take that as more than enough evidence that you are indeed smoking said cig and will ban you. It is hardly worth the risk to play the "but you don't know for sure" game. As I have no issue taking extreme disciplinary action WITHOUT 'knowing for sure'. Don't play with fire.

What about multiply windows with a player watching over them? I know there is a precedent for not getting banned for that (or atleast rumours), but that sounds not any less gamebreaking than one character doing things without supervision.

JC, I'm not sure if I can understand where is the border between good and bad. May I implement "Harvest all" button, like Hafen already* have? I can't see if this is game breaking for you, but as far as I can see - this seems not to be a "complicated" script, designed to automate whole farming process for any culture.

Also, are you sure you REALLY want to force people to use macros and clickers? Have you considered some "legal" built-in clients or server-side automatization for repetitive actions?
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*almost

I understand that it is ok right now for you to monitor anyone you suspect, but honestly I think we should stop that before long. If the population grow, it will get harder and harder everyday.
I'm not entirely against people who use bot but I do not like them myself. My first MMO gave me much more memory than any other game before the players invented bots.
Long story short, in my point of view anything that is even remotely related to botting should be watched closely and any resolution we make about it should be cautious.

Personally, I preferred jorbtar's stance on botting much more: if bots need to be used and can be used, it means a bad-ish design. More and more I see points which used to be botted disappearing (either because they are not worthwhile anymore or because they are a major pain).

That said, I also think that it is an unrealistic paradigm from a design point of view, constantly needing to create stuff that can't be botted easily while not annoying real players. In that aspect, I think the finery forge was superbly done (not in the least because it was me that "reminded" JC of that idea) while making for a interesting system.

Sifting, on the other hand, is annoying as hell to anyone that needs to remove more than two boulders and I see no reason at all why it would not be automated server-side.

It's ironic how bots are everywhere in Haven...
I also support your point on boring, repetitive tasks with high reward. It is like calling for bots.

I hope the devs show up with a character close to us, because this chat is GOAT bad, I don't even read it in Boston...

the worst chat in all games I ever play, going back decades I don't remember a chat as bad as this...